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two knights tango

 
15th September 2009, 10:19pm
#1
by pentagram
United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2009
Member Points: 156

Two knights tango, also known as Mexican tango, Mexican defense, Orlov's defense.

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 Nc6

I am looking forward to hear suggestions vs the tango in the 3. Nf3 line and if possible some links to annotated games, analysis etc.

 

Thanks in advance,

Pentagram

1st October 2009, 04:28pm
#2
by Cymantex
Sweden
Member Since: Sep 2009
Member Points: 128

Knight tango its definitely an interesting opening but the problem is that it always seems to transpose into an opening where Nc6 isnt the most useful move.

For example:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 Nc6!? 3. Nf3 e6 (note that 3. Nc3 allows black to play e5) 4. Nc3

Here black faces a dilemma, if black either playes Bb4 or d5 he will only transpose into a worse version of the nimzo-indian or QGD.

I think a better way of playing this idea is to play 1. d4 Nc6!? now white doesnt have the same option of developing.

Variations:

1. d4 Nc6!? 2. c4 e5!? This might look bad at first because white can just drive away blacks knight but black actually get pretty good play for example:

2... e5!? 3. d5 Nce7 4. Nc3 Ng6 5. e4 Nf6 6. Nf3 Bb4 White cant avoid getting a double pawn, its possible that white should avoid play e4 at all.

1. d4 Nc6!? 2. Nf3 d5 3. c4 Bg5 This is a very sound and interesting variation with many tactical possibilities.

1. d4 Nc6!? 2. e4 d5 This line transposes into the nimzowitch defense a variation which was abandoned because white can play 1. e4 Nc6 2. Nf3! and black has nothing better than transposes into the normal king pawn with e5.
However this line is very playable for black and it often leads to play with opposite castling and pawn storms.

1. d4 Nc6!? 2. d5 Ne5 This line is like an aljechin but on the other side of the board but I even think this is an improved version because white needs to drive away blacks knight using hes f-pawn instead of the c-pawn. Black can infact even "force" a draw because of this fact.
2... Ne5 3. e4 e6 4. f4 exd5 5. fxe5 Qh4+(playing exd4 leaves white with terrible pawns) 6. Kd2 Qf4+ 7. Ke2 (6. Kc3 Qxe5+ 7. Qd4 Qxe5 is slightly better for black according to rybka with 3 pawns for a piece and an open white king.) Qg4+ 8. Ke1 Qh4+ etc.

1st October 2009, 04:40pm
#3
by pentagram
United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2009
Member Points: 156

Thanks for your reply, the transposition into the Nimzo is certainly good to know :)

Both Cox and Palliser seem to suggest 2.Nf3 for 1. ..Nc6 however (probably to avoid 2. ..e5) 

1st October 2009, 05:10pm
#4
by Cymantex
Sweden
Member Since: Sep 2009
Member Points: 128

Sorry, I hadn't finished with my post when I accidentally posted it Embarassed

1. Nf3 is indeed a good move against Nc6 because it basically forces black to play d5 and go into the line i showed above.

1st October 2009, 05:13pm
#5
by pentagram
United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2009
Member Points: 156
Cymantex wrote:

Sorry, I hadn't finished with my post when I accidentally posted it

1. Nf3 is indeed a good move against Nc6 because it basically forces black to play d5 and go into the line i showed above.


Thanks for your replies :) judging from your avatar you must enjoy playing the tango!

Also in the case of 1.Nc6 what would be best (for white) to go 2.Nf3 and head for a Chingorin or 2.e4 and head for Nimzowitsch defense? Does the Chingorin have more solid reputation than the Nimzowitch (or the other way round)?

1st October 2009, 05:45pm
#6
by Cymantex
Sweden
Member Since: Sep 2009
Member Points: 128

Indeed! and have a bit of a funny repotear (1.Nc6! against everything).
The nimzowitch defense is an opening with the "e4 character" the positions is often similiar to the center-counter and french/caro-kann.

 Instead I recommend this:

1st October 2009, 05:50pm
#7
by pentagram
United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2009
Member Points: 156

This looks like a QGD exchange with the Black knight on c6, which is usually not good, is this a mainline in the 1. ..Nc6? does Black have many deviations from this? As White, here I would begin the minority attack and when Nc6 is kicked or moves away, place a knight on e5.

1st October 2009, 07:18pm
#8
by Cymantex
Sweden
Member Since: Sep 2009
Member Points: 128

The play is basically forced until move 8 where black doesn't need to castle short right away and can instead play Qd6 followed by long castle. There are a couple of earlier deviations as well but they only lead to an even worse position for black.

If this is the main line?

1. Nc6 is a very rare move and therefore not so many games has been played with it. However Nf3 seems to be the most popular move against it and therefore can be considered the main line. However this variation i showed you isnt the most popular one but this is the line which gives white the most advantage according to my analysis.

12th October 2009, 11:13am
#9
by BillyIdle
Humboldt Park, Chicago United States
Member Since: Aug 2008
Member Points: 9859

  I don't recommend the Two Knight's Tango unless you play the Nimzovitch Defense, in which case you want to join der Linksspringer Group. 

   The Nimzovitch Defense, Van Geet Opening, and Two Knight's Tango, are also well covered in Eric Shiller's book " Unorthdox Chess Openings ".

   The Mexican Defense must begin 1.d4 Nf6 rather than 1.d4 Nc6 which leads to the Chigorin Defense.  Neither the Chigorin or the Mexican Defenses are favored by most grandmasters (and with good reason). 

12th October 2009, 11:37am
#10
by BillyIdle
Humboldt Park, Chicago United States
Member Since: Aug 2008
Member Points: 9859

Is there something wrong with 1.d4 Nc6  2.d5  ?

13th October 2009, 05:43am
#11
by Cymantex
Sweden
Member Since: Sep 2009
Member Points: 128

The 1. Nc6 line is very unpopular on grandmaster level but I think the opening is very underestimated. The "good" reason for this is that the nimzowitsch defense was unpopularized because of a specific variation and of course because white could play 1.e4 Nc6 2. Nf3(!) forcing the game into a kingpawn. However the specific variation have turned out to be not all that good for white because black could play a really strong gambit line against it (I can show this variation later if someones interested).

1. d4 Nc6 can also lead to the chigorin defense like you said earlier but theres a big diffrence between this version of chigorin (which I think is totally playable) and the standard version of chigorin.

The standard chigorin (1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6?!) isn't a very good opening because blacks blocks the important c-pawn and doesn't really get any compensation for it and therefore just gets an inferior version of the QGD.

In the 1. d4 Nc6 2. Nf3 d5 chigorin however, I think its much better for black because he can get rid of hes bad bishop on c8 immediately by going Bg4. This compensates blacks decision of blocking the c-pawn with Nc6 I think.

The 1. d4 Nc6 2. d5 line is playable for white but it kinda transposes into an improved version of alekhine for black and therefore most grandmaster avoid playing this move and instead plays 2. Nf3 or 2. c4.

4th April 2010, 06:20am
#12
by rich
United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 27854

I've played this against 2 Knights tango and never lost once.

 

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