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Submitted by leo8160 on Sun, 07/26/2009 at 4:51am.

i thought to write about this subject based on a discussion made today about the values of knights and bishops...i took it from Hans Berliner famous book THE SYSTEM (diff from my system of Nymzowisch)

Berliner says:

"in any basic book on chess you will find the values of the pieces as follows

pawn 1   knight  3  bishop 3  rook 5  queen 9

this is convinient in teaching a beginner, but lacks the kind of precission needed to make meaningfull decision...for example from the table we compute that a queen worth 3 minor pieces but grandmaster experience has shown that 3 minor pieces are almost always much superior to a queen. further more 2 minor pieces plus 2 pawns are almost always a good compensation for a queen....one must understand how to make decisions such as these in order to play high level of chess"

Berliner suggested the following table instead:

pawn 1.0  knight  3.2  bishop 3.33  rook 5.1 queen 8.8

he says " you really dont need to memorize the numbers , but u should be able to evaluate that 3 minor pieces are about equal to a queen + 1 pawn.....also 2 rooks are better than a queen + 1 pawn

however , circumstances can alter evaluations , according to pawn structure ...the straight line pieces gain up to 10% in value in wide open positions and lose around 20% in blocked positions...the knight can gain up to 50% in value in blocked positions and lose 30% in the corners and on edges

chess positions may be classified as ranging from wide-open,to open,to average, to closed, to blocked"

 

Comments:

by leo8160 - 2 years ago
cairo Egypt
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 2530

agree sharky , best example in the dragon , where u dont trade ur d.s bishop with a rook and trade ur rook with the knight at c3

by sharkpoet - 2 years ago
pennsylvania United States
Member Since: Apr 2008
Member Points: 5899

Andy Soltis discussed this quite a bit and you have to take the position of the piece and the type game you're in for the relative value of a piece.  An extreme example would be a rook in the fianchettoed position versus a bishop.  The bishop has more manueverablilty thus has more value.  He also stated that knights have more power than bishops in the opening, but bishops are more powerful in endgames.  

by PaulusIII - 2 years ago
Netherlands
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 12

I don't really think that adding extra precision to the usual guidelines (1,3,3,5,9) adds something.

As Berliner himself says, much of these values are subject to situational changes. For instance, the value of a knight in a closed position is higher than a knight in an open position.

Piece values are situational enough that it kind of defeats the purpose of having extra precision. Once a player is ready to move past the 1,3,3,5,9 setup, he will likely have an understanding of the situational value of pieces and thus have no need to use this more precise classification.

by leo8160 - 2 years ago
cairo Egypt
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 2530

v nice dkmare ...thank u ....there is also another evaluation system for the pawns made by berliner in the same book comparing the side pawns and central pawns, being connected, isolated,passed, reaching rank beyond the fourth,,,etc....i will post that later too

by dkmare - 2 years ago
Dunedin New Zealand
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 2955

Counting in terms of mobility: Take the 4 central squares and place each piece in the centre except the knight. Place it in one of the central squares, and count its mobility factor.Then for each square away from the central squares (e4,e5,d4 &d5), minus 2.

Queen = 21-27

King=9 (most important in the endgame)

Rook=14 no matter where it is placed

Bishop=7-13

Central pawn (d & e) =2.5

Rook pawns=1 (unless they capture and the are worth 2)

all other pawns=2

The knight is tricky but I will put it down if anyone else is interested.

Now the beginner will have an idea of how well they are doing at any stage of the game by simply recognising how their pieces stand at any stage of the game by counting their own pieces of mobility compared to their opponents. Now you can figure out whom is actually winning the opening, and instead of feeling the pressure and not knowing why, now you will know why.

Two rooks vs the queen (as long as they are working together and not isolated from each other)

Three pieces vs the queen is generally sufficient but again, if these pieces are able to work well together fine.

Two pawns for the knight is generally sufficient compensation if you have the attack or have dmolished the defence infront of the enemy king.

three pawns for the bishop is sufficient.(Tricky area, white square bishop vs black square, good bishop vs bad bishop et cetera).

by leo8160 - 2 years ago
cairo Egypt
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 2530

No ?! nice comment pet...lol

by WolfProtector - 2 years ago
Dallas, Texas United States
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 1772

no, in all cases pawn=1 knight=3 bishop=3 rook=5 queen=9Laughing king=PRICELESS

 

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