Should Women's Chess Titles Be Scrapped?

Submitted by SonofPearl on Thu, 10/15/2009 at 12:24pm.

Women only chess events and women's chess titles - are they an invaluable help in promoting the women's game among commercial sponsors and providing opportunities for female chess players, or do they segregate talented women players into a self-perpetuating ghetto, a step below the very best (male) Grandmasters?

The Wall Street Journal has published a column suggesting that women's titles should be abolished, calling them "anachronistic and demeaning".

Only Judith Polgar (pictured) has ever proved herself capable of playing alongside the very best Grandmasters, and she did it by exclusively taking on men, rather than playing in women only tournaments.  So are women-only tournaments also a bad idea?

Have your say...

« Previous | 1 2 3 | Next »

Comments:

by MilwaukeeMike - 58 days ago
Milwaukee, Wisconsin United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 48

I agree completely with "thechessstick" on this.  Great idea!

by B97 - 59 days ago
United States
Member Since: May 2009
Member Points: 42

The points raised by Natalia_Pogonina can be addressed by judiciously selecting who you invite to participate. A mix of strong, middle-ground and less established players would alleviate many of these issues.

1) Motivational - few girls can earn men's titles, but women's titles also stand for something.

This can be addressed by introducing levels in the titles, i.e, FM (category 1, cat. 2..etc). The point being, given time, strong women players will rise up to the top echelons. It would also mean that the average playing level will improve.

2) Differentiation - right now girls who have women's titles tend to play against women, while those who have men's titles usually play (a lot) in mixed events. Pools are different, therefore, ELO is different.

This is precisely what is being argued against. Why differentiate? Why not give the good players a chance to improve not just their game but also their playing (there is a big difference between the two!)

3)Image and benefits

Good point. From this perspective WGM/FM etc titles make sense. In todaay's super politically correct world, a lot of points can be scored by corporate sponsors by putting up money for women only events. However, are they doing more harm than good?

by Annabelle - 1 month ago
Bucks - UK South Africa
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 263

Women's titles should be scrapped, this is a boring argument to say..women are not as good..we all know that it has nothing to do with "strength" - so, let's get it scrapped so men can accept us for what we are...as long as there are separate categories, you will always have those that think women are not as good. We all know also all the reasons why there aren't so many women playing - if you don't know...you should do a study and keep yourself informed and updated with the facts..you are sleepy... so, men...accept us for what we are and appreciate the women that CAN play - with all the busy schedules inbetween - and us women that WANT to play..even if it is only for the fun of it. [that's me anyway] So, drop your pose and have fun.

by POWERHOUS7 - 1 month ago
Greenville United States
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 9

hey listen this is not hard..Continue to have the Womens chess events and also if they choose can play in any open  tournamnet welcome to all. But if women can have their own chess championship which i support then when men have their own chess championship dont think they just dont want women to play. i say you can have all three (A Men's Championship, Womens championship and Open tournaments.

by Theempiremaker - 1 month ago
United States
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 709

I think Womens chess and Womens Chess Championships should be encouraged and cultivated ; it's been the case for tennis, basketball, golf , bowling ....why not chess ?

by JohnTheLovely - 1 month ago
Nätsjön Sweden
Member Since: Oct 2009
Member Points: 7

Girls are by nature more comformist and boys strive to be more individual (Strive to be packleaders). It is in our nature as well as reinforced in our culture. Of course the genders overlapp so some girls are more like boys and som boys are more like girls.

To get better girls there would first have to be more players to pick from so the talented and hard working shine through. For more girls to play more interest would be requiered. Maybe it will come with time as with some sports. Therefore some incentives are good such as GM norms and separate competitions.

by WGM Natalia_Pogonina - 2 months ago
Saratov Russia
Member Since: Jul 2009
Member Points: 222

I have summarized my view on the problem of "Women in chess" in one of the articles for Chessbase. Eventually, if more women become good at chess, women's titles can be abolished. However, right now there are a few reasons for keeping them:

1) Motivational - few girls can earn men's titles, but women's titles also stand for something

2) Differentiation - right now girls who have women's titles tend to play against women, while those who have men's titles usually play (a lot) in mixed events. Pools are different, therefore, ELO is different.

3) Image and benefits - let's say there's a girl who's doing well for her age (e.g. has 2100 FIDE at 12). By FIDE's standards, she won't even be eligible for a CM title. However, she can obtain the WFM title and look more attractive for sponsors, e.g. claim that she's a master. That matters a lot since junior chess doesn't bring any money, only expenses.Another example: someone needs to hold an exhibition event with both women and men participating (that looks attractive for sponsors). If the organizers states that all the participants are grandmasters (while some of them may be 2700-rated GMs, while others can be 2300-rated WGMs), it sounds cool. And let's say he said "Ok, we will have male super grandmasters and a bunch of female FIDE masters" - wouldn't that sound weird?

by B97 - 2 months ago
United States
Member Since: May 2009
Member Points: 42

WGM titles ought to be scrapped. If you don't have separate Math/Sci Olympiads for women, why have separate chess cycles? 

But then again you have to ask, why don't many capable women emulate Judith Polgar and compete in general/"men's" events?

by forrie - 2 months ago
Vanderbijlpark South Africa
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 450

i teach chess to a class of 7-9 year olds. There is just as much girls as boys. But what i have noticed is the competiveness between the boys that is not present with the girls - the boys would do anything (sometimes cheating) as long as they beat their friends. However, there is one girl who is the best player in the class. I asked the teacher about her and she was surprised that the girl is such a good player; she said the girl is often in trouble at the school- it seems to me that she is a little more "aggressive" than the other girls. Does this behaviour of competitiveness and maybe little more aggression in early life not contribute to chess playing? Then the culture in which the girls are brought up may contribute to their eventual playing skills. Meaning that, if the girls are instructed to bake cookies while the boys is always in competition playing competetive games (not only chess but soccer, cricket, rugby - all male dominated sport) then I think it contribute significantly to who is going to be more competitive. So woman have the capability but few are brought up like judit Polgar was - you know the Polgar story.

by linksspringer - 2 months ago
Scotland, UK Netherlands
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 6430
by _valentin_ - 2 months ago
Seattle, WA United States
Member Since: Apr 2008
Member Points: 1331

Someone below mentioned that chess is a brain game and the brain doesn't depend on gender.  The second part of this statement is factually incorrect, as science has shown us. 

If you study brain science (or even read a popular book on the subject), you'll discover that male and female brains are wired very differently from each other.  That doesn't mean that one is better than the other, but it does mean that there are qualitative differences that equip one type of brain for some tasks and the other for another set of tasks.  This is an evolutionary mechanism that allows the two genders to complement (rather than overlap) each other in the characteristics they bring to the table (e.g., in a family), which makes families more resilient and the children more likely to survive. 

 

Some examples of qualitative differences are:

- one gender's brain is much better suited at handling details whereas the other's brain can better deal with general concepts and strategies (I can't remember precisely which is which right now).

- the women's left and right brains are connected much better, so signals can pass through in a more direct fashion than they do in men's brains (where the pipe is thin and generally not suited for much inter-brain communciation).

 

I hope this clears away the confusion on the subject.  A great book that I recommend for those of you curious to look up more information on this and other brain-related subjects is: "Brain Rules" by Dr. John Medina.  You can even find information (including multi-media) on this by looking up John Medina on the web.

by forrie - 2 months ago
Vanderbijlpark South Africa
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 450

I think it is fine just as it is. Women can decide for themselves if they want to play in what tournament. Most female players play in mixed tournaments.

I think with the current situation a young girl has many oppurtunities with chess. and with the same capabilies, can go further in chess than boys where the competition is much stronger.

by bugswattr - 2 months ago
Aurora United States
Member Since: Sep 2009
Member Points: 200

I think we should simply ask, what purpose do women's titles serve and what purpose does it serve to separate men and women?

by sander9860 - 2 months ago
Columbia, MO United States
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 115

I like the idea of having women's chess tournaments, but the titles really make no sense at all.  What do you call someone who has earned the IM and WGM titles?

by EdgeOfDefeat - 2 months ago
Indiana United States
Member Since: May 2009
Member Points: 9

 I am a female player, but the majority of tournaments I play in are mixed gender. Of course, these are male dominated. This is the norm for me. So its not like females are playing in ONLY womens tournaments all the time. I only play in one or two female tournaments a year. Womens only tournaments (such as the US Womens Championship) help promote womens chess. Giving us the opportunity to meet other female players inspires us especially when we are the only or one of the only females that play in our area. Titles, however, are demeaning and unnecessary. Any woman can get a regular FIDE title just as easily as a a man. Most women who do earn both womens and mens titles usually accept the mens title over the womens title. (i.e. Irina Krush) 

by Illuminatus - 2 months ago
Virginia United States
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 7716

Indeed, love_romance13, you are correct. Chess Association is an equal opportunity group that welcomes players, male and female, from around the world, and all of our activities: team matches, tournaments, vote chess games, forums, group notes, etc., are available to all of our members, regardless of gender. To learn more about Chess Association, click the following link: http://www.chess.com/groups/home/chess-association

by love_romance13 - 2 months ago
India India
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 169

i think chess association let play women vs men each other n really it wil b cool n chess is mind game n brain dont depands on gender

by wetpaste - 2 months ago
United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 113

i think that women are just as capable as men as being world class in chess. I'm almost agreeing with this article that perhaps the reason women are lower in rating is that they are not in the same pool, there is less motivation to be the best because they are offered this other place to play, this other league almost. If they were just put into the same category in the first place, it would be necessary for them to prove that they are equal minded, which I believe to be true. I feel this segregation is a just a leftover from a different era of sexism. If there was equal eemphasis on women in general to play chess in the same system as men, I'm sure in  number of years we would eventually see women in the top 10.

by thechessstick - 2 months ago
Toledo, OH United States
Member Since: Sep 2009
Member Points: 15

Let's cut right to the chase.  USCF or some chess entrepeneur should put together a ladies-of-chess calender.  Making sure that there are plenty of nice poses.  Perhaps even Sports Illustrated could do such a thing.  This would probably do more to promote womens chess than anything else that has been tried.

by idosheepallnight - 2 months ago
United States
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 1587

How many women are in the worlds top 1000 players?   1

Argue all you want, women are not as good. Which is why they need their own tournaments.

« Previous | 1 2 3 | Next »

Add your comment:

Join Chess.com for free to add your comment! Already a member? Then login now to comment.