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I've only played eight games on the site, having only become a member just last October. I have been trying to work out if the QGD,Tartakower defence would suit me. It looks attractively solid to me but there is just one thing about it that bothers me.
On average, a hugh percentage of the Tartakower D58 games seem to go on for a very long time, ending in draws. Now, if a game looks drawish at move thirty then playing on to move 70 odd, isn't good for me. I'm an old fellah. I get tired.
Has anyone noticed any move in the Tartakower that black can play, which usually results in a shorter game? I am not talking about the early agreed draws.
At 15:12, after 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Be7 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Bg5 0.0 6.e3 h6 7.Bh5 b6 8.Rc1 Bb7 9.Bxf6 Bxf6 10.cxd exd 11.b4 Qd6 12.Qb3 you suggest Nd7, but 13.Nb5 (instead of Be2) seems to win the pawn on c7.
iamdeafzed that's why the vid a labeled "advanced". Personally, i watch sam's vids because of the fact he doesn't explain the obvious tactics. Have a nice day sir.
@ GM ShanklandI haven't watched many of your videos yet, so I'm going through kind of a learning curve on your presentation style and intended audience. That said, I felt like you didn't spend enough time explaining the ideas behind each of the lines you covered. Granted, Queen 'Gambit' theory is intense (to say the least) so I don't completely fault you on this, especially for a video aimed at ~20 minute length.
Tartakover's variation is a very well respected line of the QGD having been played by several world champions to include Kasparov, Karpov, and Spassky. I have an opening repertoire book that has it as the defense to queen pawn. Thanks GM Shankland for going over it.
To anyone interested in the QGD, join this brand new group! http://www.chess.com/groups/home/queens-gambit-declined-defenders
1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 Be7 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Bf4 Nf6 6. e3 Bf5 7. Qb3 Nc6
i'm not sure why Nc6 is so popular because the computer thinks white will be better here after Qxb7 Nb4 Rc1
This isnt just SF, Houdini also rates this position as advantage for white. The engines think that the best way for black to defend is with 7...Qc8
In the line with 7...Nc6 it seems that 8.g4 is a strange move for white to play and would not be expected to be best. Obviously i dont know a great deal about it though.
1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nf3 Be7 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bh4 O-O 7. e3 b6 8. cxd5 Nxd5 9. Nxd5 exd5 10. Bxe7 Qxe7 11. Rc1 c5 12. dxc5 bxc5 *
I'm not sure why you said 13.Qa4 here since that completely misses the fact that 13.Qxd5 wins a pawn with no compensation at all for black.
At 17:53 u have the following position set-up
1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Be7 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bh4 O-O 7. e3 b6 8. Rc1 Bb7 9. Bxf6 Bxf6 10. cxd5 exd5 11. b4 Nd7 12. Bd3 a5 13. b5 c5 14. O-O c4 15. Bf5 Qe7 16. Na4
& here you say that "black is lost". If you check this on an engine though it is not the case. At the point where 15.Bf5 is played SF even evaluates the position as black have a 0.5 advantage so surely he is not losing? Sometimes I think you're just making stuff up as u go along.
If we go to 19:22
1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Be7 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bh4 O-O 7. e3 b6 8. Rc1 Bb7 9. Bxf6 Bxf6 10. cxd5 exd5 11. b4 Nd7 12. b5 a6 *
However, computer just rates a6 move as an obvious blunder.
One last point is that at the end of the video you have the following moves:
1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Be7 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bxf6 Bxf6 7. e3 O-O 8. Bd3 c6 9. h4 *
8.Bd3 is very uncommon here but is still in the database. Rc1 Qd2 or Qb3 are many times more popular for white. But, the semi-slav like 8...c6 for some reason the engines did not like the look of and recommended that black plays the Tarrasch like c5 in one move. I'm not sure how I would feel about playing this personally but I just wanted to point out that is the move recommended by the computer engines.
Also note that white has many tricks to use against this line, such as playing Nd4 while using the pin on the c5 pawn, and other ways to gain an advantage if black is not careful. I believe that the Fischer-Spassky matches seemed to show white has enough against this variation, even if they weren't played in the modern computer era.
willysweetkane: You're right, the move order given is a mistake. Black almost always plays Be6 first:
"Today we're gonna talk about an opening that, well, I don't really like it... some people like it..."
Doesn't the sequence @ 11:30-12:00 just hang the pawn on d5? Why does white not play Qxd5 instead of Qa4?
Interesting to look at the QGD from black's perspective, honestly I'd never play this as black because I simply enjoy playing against it as white too much! Interesing lesson though.
Thank you sam. In addition to the amount of valuable knowledge in every video, I enjoy the way you show the "obvious" tactics at a fast phase. I'm looking forwards to the next videos in this series. BTW if you can cover the Catalan at some point,that would be awesome.
Interesting video and some good ideas with more to look forward too.
Nice idea I like it. Thumbs up for Sam.
Nice video Sam, first :D
by GM Sam Shankland
For the introduction video to his new series on the Queen's Gambit Declined (from black's perspective), GM Sam Shankland reviews the awkward move orders, the tricky transpositions, and all those in between! He focuses mainly on the principles of the Tartakower variation, suggesting a recommended move order for black, and highlighting the specific pawn structures black wants to avoid.
Queen's Gambit Declined: Tartakower Defense (D58)
Related: Becoming a Nemesis: QGD with Qd2
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GM Sam Shankland
Sam learned chess at age 11 from the Berkeley Chess School program. Within four years, he had become a National Master, and two years later, he became an International Master when he tied for first in the world u-18 championship, a result unmatched in the last decade of international play by American players. At 20, he has already played in several U.S. Championships, placing 3rd in 2011.
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