Autoclaim frustrations

Hi Chattaraji Chess Team friends,

There are times when the Autoclaim Win turns Chaturaji into a game of luck and takes a lot of fun out of the game.

1st Game

https://www.chess.com/variants/chaturaji/game/91947975/0/2

This game only lasted ten moves. Two of the players were knocked out early, with Yellow Autoclaiming with just 8 points. In this position, I would definitely try for 1st place, but should easily be able to secure 2nd place by earning only 6 points.

Unfortunately I lost nearly 51 rating points on this game, and have lost a ton more rating points in many similar games. I’m sure you all have, as well! 

For these types of games, Autoclaim basically turns Chatturaji into a game of luck - which is super frustrating from a rating perspective. 

2nd Game

https://www.chess.com/variants/chaturaji/game/91944980/0/2

The 2nd game was an interesting battle, lasting almost 40 moves. Overall, I was happy with my play. 

After Green’s King was captured on move 20, Green had 22 points. With Yellow (a very strong player) at 16 points, I knew I was playing for 2nd place. 

On move 38 I had 18 points, and Yellow autoclaimed with 23 points. This is disappointing because I was in a great position to eventually force a rook trade, which would have still resulted in a Yellow win, but (absent any blunders) I have a reasonable expectation of finishing 2nd with 23 points. 

TLDR

Autoclaim makes sense when a player is up an insurmountable amount of points, but is otherwise frustrating when there is a clear path to securing enough points to place 1st or 2nd. It introduces a luck factor which I don’t find enjoyable. Others may reasonably disagree. 

For the second game, I feel like the opponent didn't actually autoclaim, he just waited until you had exactly four less points than green until resigning, likely to be annoying. That just feels a bit toxic. Personally, I wouldn't remove claim win, one because it saves time and two because it's just another way of resigning. But autoclaim is bad in some instances, and I would be willing to replace autoclaim with just claim win.

First, thanks for making a forum about it! We don't have as many long-form discussions about aspects of play like this as we should.

For myself, I don't think that luck is the best word for it, only because that implies randomness, which autoclaim is not. I feel like it falls on the player to pay attention to the scores and play accordingly (you could have prevented the autoclaim in game one by following the moves Artic posted in the chat, and in game 2 you could have played b.38 Ne3 or something similar).

That being said, even if you removed autoclaim neither of the games would be different, because the leading player could have simply resigned after taking the 3-point lead, which is of course all that autoclaim is.

I think while playing 4pc in any form (including Raji) you sign up to the fact that you will have players who are trash and will sacrifice their pieces and king to another player. Autoclaim is important mainly because points are prioritized over pieces and mate, especially in Raji where the points required foir a win is just +3.

thats kinda what you get for playing noobs. i do it too, because i hate the time controls that other high rated players love. its sucks i know

My view entirely; it could have been avoided with better play, and it's just another way of resigning to claim the win.

Auto-claim is used in order to stop the player leading on points (who claims by resigning) giving the player in 3rd (you in this case) artificial points to be 2nd.

Imagine you're green in game 2, there's no autoclaim, and you're out and have to watch yellow give free points to blue so that blue passes you in points when you earned more. It's an anti-cheating (by teaming) measure.

Auto-claim is great

I will also add that claiming the win in Chaturaji is much better designed (in my opinion) than 4 player, which gives you 20 points for checkmates. It makes it easier to plan ahead for the end of the game. It adds a different kind of strategy that isn't found in 4 player. This is one of the things that makes Chaturaji unique from other variants.

And I totally agree with Bird-Seed's and your view on autoclaim. If we removed auto-claim, it would literally make things even more random or luck-based than they already are. Especially with low rated games, which we all need to stop playing! It's a bad habit!

Thanks all, I really appreciate all of your responses.

A couple of follow up thoughts:

Regarding playing newbies, I wasn't aware we could really control that. Even if I click on a higher rated game in the lobby (ie - for 2100+, etc.) there still end up being "1500?" players in the game somehow.

Second, I just disagree with the fairness of the 3 point resign feature. In game one the opponent was only up 8 points with many more than that left on the board. In that situation, it seem like resigning so early in the game should result in forfeiting the total number of points the player still has on the board. That would force a skilled endgame if someone lucks their way temporarily into 1st place.

No, if a game is 2100+ then only 2100+ can join. If you find a game with lower rated players in a rating restricted game please link it, never seen that before.

That would mean changing the rules of Chaturaji really. The fact that a king is just 3 points is something that is critical to factor into your strategy/calculations.

I have seen blocked people in the same game before, but never a 1500 in a restricted game.

if u block someone that doesn't mean you can't join the same game

Well it at least attempts to stop you from joining the same game/

i used that tactic to take 2nd place for a lot of times lol