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Checkmate Without Dignity or Play on?

gg7654

In this position, it is blue's turn and he can play Qxm5#, winning the game on the spot. The problem with this move is that it gives blue's opposite last place. In this game, green had helped blue to checkmate yellow in the opening and is now vulnerable. Question to 2300+ players (in standard rapid/blitz ffa): Do you take the checkmate or play something else? (In the game, blue did take the checkmate to win the game)

Ralphmcm

take checkmate because red has 2 queens and is more powerful

BlacknightsJADHJ

i would not ( but i am not a expert )

Indipendenza

(currently 2423 pts Rapid, and usually between 2400 and 2550, i.e. my opinion probably is not very relevant, I'm not 2700)

More exactly, that wouldn't be automatically 4th place for green, as red would have 12 pts. But yes, of course against 2 Qs you can't but claim, and that means 32 pts for red and 4th for green.

The situation indeed is tricky, because it is not guaranteed that green would still play together with you if you let him survive; also it is not impossible that red manages to kill green alone thx to his 2 Qs and/or comes to kill you, etc.

In my case the solution would depend on two factors:

- anon. or non-anon. game : who is in front?

- time remaining. If it's a bullet game, I would definitely checkmate. If it's a blitz 4/0, and only 16 sec. remain, also I would checkmate. But if it's a 1/15s and still 40 sec. remain to all, no, I wouldn't take it.

Maureeze

you mate and can claim win right? and thereby take first place. 

Indipendenza
Maureeze a écrit :

you mate and can claim win right? and thereby take first place. 

 

Lol. I believe you didn't get the issue.

Super-Speeder

i say as a 2600 blitz player that:

1. Don't play 1|5D FFA; 4|0 is much better.

2. Don't checkmate if opposite is a good player, especially in 3p stage. Checkmate if he shows discrepancies.

3. Follow 1. and 2.  

 

TheUltraTrap

I am not very good, just a 1700 that lost a ton because of disconnecting but I know these principle about helping the opposite. I personally would defend green with my queen, unless he hasn't cooperated with me in the opening

Radon

You know my answer, im very vocal about this but even if you can mate and claim on the spot I wouldnt give my opposite 4th unless they are asking for it but chances are they were out in the 4pc stage not in the 3pc stage.

Cha_ChaRealSmooth

Take the mate. What were green’s last moves? Did they not see this mate coming, or trust their dear opposite very much? Green has himself to blame. 

75Sorin

i'm not a pro (2100) but I would checkmate green like Cha_ChaRealSmooth said.

e4bc4qh5qf7

Play for the win. Opposite vengeance isn’t really a such thing in 2021. We have a pro, a “non-pro”, and an infamous opposite queen taker (who’s sometimes a good opposite otherwise) now agreeing on this issue!

TheChessDude991

Play for a win. Trusting your opp in the 4pc stage (when there's pieces left on the board ofc) is required for good play, but once a player is eliminated, all players are viewed in the same light, as enemies, regardless of what they did in the 4pc stage. Would you give up a win to let an enemy live?

Radon

I standby not giving my opposite 4th place in the 3pc stage unless it is forced. It may affect your win rate but it is good sportsmanship and makes the community and game as a whole more enjoyable and less toxic. Take from these comments what you will. 

- A pro who disagrees.

Indipendenza

Guys, I believe the question is not ONLY about taking the 1st place or not (the answer is obvious). But much more about whether one should be 1st at any cost, incl. making the opp FOURTH. If we follow what gg7654 presented, here the opp was cooperative and correct.

a) from MY perspective in most cases (but I put some exceptions above) to make him 4th is lack of courtesy,

b) and anyway if you do, how will he cooperate in future, in non-anon games? I don't hell think to be the only one here who would not cooperate that much in future with someone who DELIBERATELY made me 4th (not 3rd or 2nd, who cares, but FOURTH). So it may be utterly counterproductive with emotional people and/or people having good memory. 

Indipendenza
TheChessDude991 a écrit :

Would you give up a win to let an enemy live?

 

Here it's completely another issue. For instance, IF anyway the opp is dying next move, not to kill him would be silly (and I would understand it 100% if it happens to me for example, as it's normal). But the problem gg submitted is totally different.

TheChessDude991

Your opposite is not your friend, however much it may look like that. They are playing for first just as much as you and your flanks are. A temporary mutually beneficial cooperation increases both of your winning chances (thereby, decreasing but not necessarily eliminating the chance of losing). It does not guarantee mutual cooperation (or, in this case, avoidance of last place for your opp) in the 3PC stage. Any winning chances should be taken, regardless of what they do to your opp.

JCrossover_14

pfff of course you take the mate, what you think theres dignity in ffa? 

rojitto

This is interesting, I guess it depends on how the game was on the 4pc stage. Personally i wouldnt take the mate but u cant blame anyone for playing Qm5.

Another question, Im assuming that red last move was Qj5, he probably missed the queen on f12. 

Would you give the game to blue so that yellow is not last?

Of course not, unless I made terrible mistakes that hurt yellow.

Im talking about 2400+ FFA, otherwise i would take the mate for sure.

MayimChayim
JCrossover_14 wrote:

pfff of course you take the mate, what you think theres dignity in ffa? 

Great minds think alike lol

Who even cares if a dude blocks you be tougher