Group Consensus on English/Symmetrical English arising from Nf3_c4 Reti?

Dear All,

Could you share your personal preferences (and perhaps the groups consensus) on how to approach English/Symmetrical English lines that arise from our Nf3_c4 Reti?

It seems to me that it's hard for white to prove much of an edge in these types of games.  It seems in higher level games an early-ish d4 is a common idea:

but when and where to play  the d4 break doesn't always seem very clear to me.

Also, do we necessarily have to accept a English transposition for best play for white? Are there other avenues we could consider playing?

What I typically do nowadays is play a Barcza and finish the fianchetto and castle and give black a chance to let me do something more comfortable.  For example, the Reversed Gruenfeld is very strong.  You can also do a double fianchetto English, which will have a lot of Reti-type themes.  At any rate,, delaying or omitting c4 will give you options and help avoid early tactics around the center.

Other options:  2e4 will get you a Sicilian, which probably doesn't excite a Reti player.  2b3 can be strong as the Nimzo-Larsen Attack, with ideas of Bb2, e3, Bb5 to clamp down on the e5 square--this was my choice for a long time.  2e3 can get you similar ideas if that's how your taste runs--this leaves the door more open to standard English lines (the best play for an objective advantage in the Symmetrical may be to get both knights out, e3, and then d4 as early as move 5).  A nice thing about 2b3 is 2...g6 is discouraged, and that may well throw your opponent for a loop if they like English style systems..

The Symmetrical English takes all the fun out of playing the Reti. In fact the Symmetrical English takes all the fun out of playing chess altogether. But there it is - and it's probably a boring game and a draw. 

I would follow dodgecharger1968's advise.

Thanks for the advice wormrose.

@dodgecharger1968  - Do you find if you go Barcza and complete the castle that the game often transposes to more of a KIA flavor?

also, I too considered a nimzo 2b3 flair, though objectively it seems there are several lines for black to achieve comfortable equality, I also find white's plans to be straightforward too. What was your reason for giving up giving up this choice after a period of time?

If you don't play e4, it doesn't come out much like a KIA, although if you do so it will transpose into a Sicilian Vs KIA.   I typically get other reversed defenses, Benoni and Gruenfeld which are strong with an extra move or QID--the Nimzo-Larsen Attack--which is probably more equal.

Generally, if black has played Nc6 and d5, I play d4 for the Reversed Gruenfeld.   In many cases, you can play d4 as soon as Nc6 comes out, even without d5 if you like the Gruenfeld type of game.  But don't forget that once black plays d5, you can also try to resume the Reti plan of c4 as well--the advanced d-pawn is a bit stronger with c5 already supporting it though.  If black refuses to play Nc6, it can be a good alternative to the Gruenfeld type positions.  You can even play it into a Reversed Benko Gambit if black advances d4.  This Reversed Benoni strategy can be a decent alternative to the Gruenfeld ideas.

If black plays d6 and not Nc6, then you are stuck with (the KIA or) the Symmetrical, but knowing that black has committed to that pawn structure makes his position less dynamic and I find adding the queenside fianchetto tends to play well, even before c4.

If black plays e6, then d5 will be next and c4 may be necessary to stay ahead.  After cxd5 exd5, it's hard to complain as white, and d4 or b3 can both be good follow up plans depending.

It took me a few years to really get what the Gruenfeld Defense is trying to accomplish, but once I got it, I stopped trying to avoid d-pawn breaks in advantageous positions.  I realized that the positions I could get by contending the center that way were strong but just as baffling to my opponents as a straight Reti.

3. b4