20293 Players currently online!
Man vs. Machine - good luck!
Turn-based games at any time!
Vote for the best move to win!
Do you have what it takes?
Backgammon, Yatzy, and more!
Sharpen your tactical vision!
Get advice and game insights!
Learn from top players & pros!
View millions of master games!
Your virtual chess coach!
Perfect your opening moves!
Test your skills vs. computer!
Find the right private coach!
Can you solve it each day?
Bring it all together!
Beginners, start here!
Make friends & play team games!
News from the world of chess!
Search all Chess.com members!
Find local clubs & events!
Who's the best of your friends?
Read what members are saying!
It might be me you're talking about. At least I don't remember other people speaking of "gray streaks" in rosewood.
My experience didn't come from photographs but from a House of Jacques (ebay seller) from whom I got a 4" Rosewood and Boxwood Monarch set as a gift. I actually had it for a few months before handing it off so I had a good chance to look at it. Some parts of the wood were in fact very light, even grayish at the lightest. Lighter than just a faded brown.
I just assumed that the rosewood used in the HOJ set was not good quality, and that lesser quality of materials was intended for this set, which was nicely weighted, felted, and pretty well turned and carved, and adequately finished. All in all a good buy--something like $50 as I recall.
I guess I'd expect better rosewood unless one were definitely "buying cheap."
As a buyer from a seller like HOS I'd expect an aesthetically pleasing rosewood. At least my experience with one of their rosewood/sycamore veneer boards leads me to that: I got a great buy on one whose rosewood varied in shade too much from one end of the board to the either (lighter to darker). Although it didn't seem like much of an issue to me, they wanted to sell it "as is" and not through their the normal channels, just to protect their reputation as they considered the board defective.
So yes, I wouldn't hesitate on buying rosewood from such a seller as HOS. Don't let stories of gray streaks scare anyone off from buying rosewood pieces. For that matter, ditto stories about cracking ebony. My oldest ebony set is almost 20 years old and there are no problems.
I'd pick a reputable seller if you're picky at all about materials, finish, etcetera. There is one nightmare story here about some guy that got a defective board and last he told it they told him that they were done trying to please him.
Bad apple seller.
Probably the best thing one can do is buy quality from a good and established seller, with return guarantees.
just get a proper chess set with metal pieces ;)
Boxwood is both lightweight and strong. A predominance of rock and roll guitars are made from boxwood. It is wonderful for chess pieces. Here again it is best to give it periodic waxing and/or oiling in dry climatic conditions. The same goes for the chessboard. There are many fine furniture polishes and oils suited to chess piece preservation.
Thanks for all the help. Two pieces are cracked (knight and king). I'm going to contact HOS.
Please don't settle for just two pieces being replaced. (a) you're unlikely to get a good match with replacements and (b) if one or two have cracked (without rough use), likely the whole lot were not properly cured before shaping, and the rest will crack with time. Hardwood needs TWO YEARS to properly cure, likely maybe longer for some hardwoods.
Makers get lazy and whip up quickly made sets and about 6-18 months' later, the recipients reap the annoyance of cracking pieces. The Seller will probably be aware of other complaints (and ought to change suppliers).
ps. I had this happen with a nice triple weighted set from the USCF. Starting cracking at around 10 months, I complained after 4 of them had cracked at around 16 months. They sent a complete replacement set AND a nice wooden storage box (they knew full well that that particular set had been improperly made from uncured wood as I'm confident they'd received many such complaints).
pps. Eventually (about 3 years later) the white King of the replacement set developed a minor crack [I'm extremely gentle with my pieces, and certainly do not let sunshine hit them]. Which causes me to reflect that hardwood curing is a fussy business requiring lots of patience. Five years might not be too long to allow hardwood to cure, before shaping it into chess pieces.
Hardwood needs TWO YEARS to properly cure, likely maybe longer for some hardwoods....
Five years might not be too long to allow hardwood to cure, before shaping it into chess pieces.
It depends on the size of the rough stock. The thicker the piece, the more age necessary. (Air dried wood has the endgrain sealed to prevent splitting from too rapid and potentially uneven drying. It must dry out cross grain, a slower but safer method.)
Two years is pretty short. Five is better. Longer, better still. Like I said before, a violinmaker I know won't touch a stick with less than ten years of (verifiable) age, and prefers FORTY plus, if possible. (Most of his stock of wood he purchased in the late 1970's to early 1980's.)
Hmm, yes, you're right -- five years is sounding more like it. I'd been thinking of firewood (one year for softwoods, two years for hardwoods), else they're apt to do poorly in fireplaces. And for sure, ends dry out very rapidly, the slower the drying the less cracking and to some extent, less warping (though warping has more to do with the grain's orientation).
Something like being ready to be carved into chess pieces from hardwood would take much longer than for firewood, for the wood to lose its moisture content throughout in an even fashion to reduce the likelihood of later cracking.
It's way too easy to see a carving outfit new on the market, taking shortcuts and not allowing five years or so for their wood supply to properly cure (or paying premium prices to get the wood stock needed from a reliable source).
Your example of violins is not so much a cracking issue, but the flat, thin panels mean even the slightest warping due to moisture levels being redistributed, would lead to undesireable effects on the tonal qualities.
Just buy a humidifier and use it religously, never allowing humidity to drop below 40% and you will be fine. Owners of wooden stringed instruments are fanatical about this and if you want to protect a nice wooden chess set, then you need to be also. Keeping humidity levels between 40% and 60% will also help keep you healthy as well. Buy a digital hygrometer (I think that's what they are called.... senior moment, sorry) so you can measure the humidity at various places in your house rather than relying on the humidifier gauge. To keep a 1 bedroom apt. humidified at 40 %, I usually need to have the humidifier itself set to run at between 50 and 55 %. In the very dead of winter with single digit (or lower) temperatures, you may need to supplement your main humidifier with another smaller one. I've also been known to run the shower on hot several times a day during a particularly cold dry spell. Having a few grand worth of guitars in the house requires a certain ownership commitment. If you have any kind of chess set collection, you should probably show similar diligence.
Hmm, yes, you're right -- five years is sounding more like it. ...
I have to wonder if they use air dried or kiln dried wood. Kiln drying can speed things up, but the wood is usually more brittle as a result. I'm not even sure if boxwood or ebony would do well being dried that way? In any event, there are few industries willing to lay in a supply of raw materials which must sit around untouched for a decade or so. A specialty wood supplier might, but it could be difficult to properly anticipate demand, and carefully dried older stocks would naturally be more expensive.
As for violins, warping is not the issue. The tops and backs are carved to shape, and have a certain amount of resistance to deformation based on the architecture of the arches. Of course, if the wood was too green, some deformation would be possible, however shrinkage related problems would be vastly more significant. The only thin flat panels are the sides or "ribs." These are bent to shape and have reinforcing "linings" glued to the edges to provide some stiffness and increase the gluing surface where the top and back attach. Shrinkage related cracking is possible since the rates of shrinkage differ with respect to the grain direction, and the assembled body involves a situation similar to crossed grain.
The shrinkage lengthwise is usually negligible. Radial shrinkage (from the center of the tree to the periphery) is more significant, and often at 90 degrees to the radius the rate of shrinkage can be almost double. In the situation of the violin, the sides have the grain running lengthwise. They shrink most (per unit distance) in thickness, which, considering how thin they are, amounts to little change. They can shrink in width, but apart from cellos and basses, that is seldom significant. The perimeter they form changes little if any, since that is the direction of least change. The tops and backs, similarly, change little in length, most in thickness (though being thin, the total difference is seldom if ever a problem). The change in width can be significant, especially if the wood was too "green." With the width changing, the perimiter is reduced -- while being glued to ribs whose perimeter does not change. The result is usually a popped glue seam, or if the glue used was too strong, a crack. In extreme cases, it becomes difficult to correctly reglue the seam, as the amount of edge overhanging the rib decreases. In some instances, the violinmaker will need to remove the upper and lower ribs from the internal blocks and shorten their lengths in order to restore the proper overhang. Little wonder why old wood is preferred!
By the way, baddogno's comments are right on the money. I concur.
I revived this topic because it applies to the question that I'm about to ask.
As a few of you know, I purchased a really beautiful 3-army luxury set of 6-inch king directly from HOS's Indian craftswork company. The man spent so much time and devotion on each piece. It arrived a month ago and was the light of my room: so much detail to perfection; even if the ebony was so pitch black that it looks like plastic. This morning, to my shock and dismay, I found a really wide crack on two of my 4 Bishops, a proto crack that looks to be develping on one of my 4 Rooks and one of my 10 pawns. And then, there was also a microscopic chip off of one of my 4 Queens. (At least now we know it's not plastic.)
He's going to send some crack-fix oil of some sort with my invented pieces, which will be shipped at mid-month.
I'm guessing that, as extravagantly beautiful and awes-worthy as Ebony is for it's pitch blackness and the fact that it can simulate plastic, the wood just isn't worth the trouble; the same way white paints is high-maintenance.
That said, I was wondering, since American Holly (the opposite of Ebony) is 36% to 40% humid. Does it crack under any conditions? I ask because I'm changing my mind on the wood to be used on a chess commission that I'm having a future hire create as a gift for my cuz's June 28th birthday. Originally, this birthday set was to be Bloodwood and Ebony. But, because I'm having strong thoughts on dropping the Ebony, I have decided to replace it with Holy (and make the Bloodwood army the black pieces instead.)
All wood needs a certain level of humidity to prevent cracking. Evidently you don't have it!
If it's cracking as bad as you say within a month, I suspect the wood was not properly seasoned to start with.
Also, if the Ebony you have is that black, it's probably an inferior grade of wood that has been dyed.
Thanks for the information, dunce. However, you didn't quite answer my specific question.
Ebony is a beautiful wood, but it's too brittle for its own good, making it very susceptible to shrinkage and cracking. I bought an HOS Nottingham set in ebony about a year ago, and now I'm thinking of selling it off. After playing with it over the past year, I've found I much prefer rosewood (including bud and blood rosewood), padauk, and even sheesham for the dark pieces to ebony or ebonized, which I found tend to obscure detail, especially with the knights.
Anyone interested in an ebony 1936 Nottingham set, which is a repro of an early 1890s British Chess Company set, send me a PM.
My good ol HOS Frank C Staunton player set made of genuine ebony and boxwood has a few here and there. Those little hairline cracks honestly don't bother me one bit as the set still plays like a dream. Oh, and yes the boxwoods have a few hairline cracks too, so be aware that any other wood for that matter can get hairline base cracks over time, even with the most expensive sets. Even plastic sets from a great company can do it... Here's the proof...
Now if you use this stuff you'll never look back. Wish I knew about it in earlier years. My older vintage of course didn't get the treatment when I purchased it almost 20 years ago. However, all my new pieces get a light coat when I get them and haven't had one single problem in years with genuine ebony or any of the woods I have. Anyway don't worry about it-Play em like ya stole em :)
Mmmmm . . . yeah, actually I did. First sentence in my post says, "All wood needs a certain level of humidity to prevent cracking." That would include all woods.
Mmmm....no, actually you didn't. Obviously, I read your first sentence, which provided nothing more than an unproductive over-generalized answer of all woods that, mind you, isn't even completely accurate. (My Ebony army has pieces that cracked, but my European Hornbeam army, the white pieces of this set, has been fine this entire time.) All woods work differently, and some may not crack; at least many to most do not readily under the same conditions as ebony, if at all. That, I do know.
I'm guessing you don't actually know about American Holly, and so I shall continue my search.
When I provided an "over-generalized answer", I was taking into account the audience (you). Based on your experience of 2 different woods for 1 month, you feel that you have enough data to say that wood doesn't need care to prevent it from drying out and cracking. Whatever you say. Enjoy your cracked chess set(s), present and future.
The fact that you evidently started off with a crappy grade of ebony doesn't help. And well-seasoned wood isn't as volatile.
If, on the other hand, you are interested in looking after your chess sets (aka, maintenance) . . .
There are wood treatments that can seal the wood's moisture in (for a recently posted example, see #34 above). Plus, common sense measures such as keeping the pieces away from the heater and out of the sun. If you want to keep wooden musical instruments healthy (built with ebony, rosewood, walnut, spruce, maple, etc.), the best way to store them is in a humidity- and temperature-controlled room. I don't see how a wooden chess set, made from the same types of wood, would behave any different (and this corelation has been explored repeatedly in the thread above by several experts in the field, if you took the time to read it).
Bottom line, if you let any wood dry out completely, it'll probably crack (feels like I've said this before). Some woods take longer to dry out than others. Some climates are drier than others. There are, however, ways to prevent wood from drying out at all. But that would require some upkeep effort on your part, which I get the impression would be a deal-breaker.
*taps foot, waiting for simple 1-3 sentence answer about Holly*
Still didn't get it....
You do realize that no one here is obligated to answer your questions? Your rude behavior actually makes it less likely.
Wood is a living material, even when treated right it can behave unexpectedly. No one can promise you with 100% certainty that it will not crack given the right (or perhaps wrong) conditions. Given your experience most imported wood products are probably more likely to develop cracks over time in your environment.
I agree, you definitely do not get it.
Not my problem, and I have better things to do. See ya.
FFF (For Fischer Fans)
by solskytz a few minutes ago
by tteshan 9 minutes ago
by ChessOath 10 minutes ago
My Paul Morphy Impression
by jaaas 11 minutes ago
by petrikeckman 19 minutes ago
by fredkoch 21 minutes ago
What's the difference between a Super GM and a GM?
by torreke 32 minutes ago
by kfleming 34 minutes ago
by David_Dz15 40 minutes ago
chess vendors to sell single armies - thought
by Bawker 40 minutes ago
Why Join | Chess Topics |
Help & Support |
© 2016 Chess.com
• Chess - English
We are working hard to make Chess.com available in over 70 languages. Check back over the year as we develop the technology to add more, and we will try our best to notify you when your language is ready for translating!