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1.d4 Nc6!?

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tmkroll
Silly, fun variation Brian Wall has done some work on.
WanderingPuppet

1.d4 nc6 2.nf3 (now d5 is a threat) the best i can find is ...d5 or ...e6.  and there are some real problems in the chigorin and the french with ...Nc6, enough it's a slightly larger than normal edge for white for not much for black after 10 moves if white knows their stuff.  i've tried ...d6 but after d5 ne5 nxn px i prefer white a bit.

also 2.d5 followed by 3.e4 with white taking on e6 when ...e6 played is a slight edge for white.

and then u need a plan against g3 lines altho the N being on c6 is ok there.

Play2Lose

The Nimzoswitsch fine, you will  get a playable position, but apart from surprise factor it doesn't offer all too much.

Without this early f5 idea I decided to just bin the Nimzoswitch as  I didn't want anything to do with the h4 h5 business.

ruben72d
Fiveofswords wrote:
 

ruben72d wrote:
Fiveofswords wrote:
ruben72d wrote:

what's up btw with everybody suggesting white should take on e5 after e4 Nc6 2. d4 e5? thats just helping black gettinf a comfy position. f4 creates holes which black can exploit while a move like Nf3 just helps black develop with d6. the correct way is just simply playing 3.d5 Nce7 4. Nf3 Ng6 5. h4 askibg a question what that knight is actually doing.if de was all that i would face i would dwitch back to the nimzowitzsch immediately

i think i was the only one who said that regarsing the nimzowich. i would auggest it because it is more of an advantage than d5 thats all. if you are happy with that position as black then great...play the nimzowich

I won't since white has many good answer to it with 5. h4 being best imo, and if all else fails he can always transpose to a scotch which can hardly be called a success if the goal is to get somebody out of book

maybe I overreacted a bit, that line indeed seems better for white. however I'm still not convinced taking on e5 is any good. After 4.Nf3 Nxf3+ 5. Qxf3 Qf6 it seems rather drawish if the queens are taken off and other options do not seem that promising either. It seems to me to create a situation where the higher rated person wins, not so much a consequence of the opening play.

SuirenBoid

It is a perfectly sound if unusual way to play as black, after d5, Ne5 black hits back at the centre with e6/e5. 

RivertonKnight

They are saying let's play chess!

darkunorthodox88
Mirjana_k wrote:

A guy play black. someone open with 1. d4 Nc6 2. d5 Nb8. He always goes back with the knight.  If it is on the other site of the board, same thing! Why? Am I missing something?

 

2.nb8 or 3.nb8 is not that bad in these lines, as black will play it like a pirc where the extra pawn push slightly weakens dark squares and weakens a possible e4-e5 thrust.  2.ng8 in the alekhine however is not as good, the difference being, the pawn structure in those lines allows white to direct his pieces at a kingside attack.

brianchesscake

it's basically a reversed Alekhine's defense, but not as good.

darkunorthodox88

its not an easy to defense to play, but mostly because theory on it is quite scarce so its usually those willing to explore uncharted territory that are comfortable playing it. White also gets a whole lot of choice so black must be prepared for a lot.

1.d4 nc6 2.d5 ne5 lines are very fun and highly unusual, especially after 3.f4 ng6 4.e4 e6 5.dxe6 dxe6 6. QxQ, actually, if white naively tries to play these lines as a queenside alekhine instead (like keeping tension after e6 and/or plays c4 for example). , black gets a great game often with advantage, because bc5 is superior to bf5 in the alekhine due to restricting 0-0. 

2.d4 nc6 2. nf3 (most common move) and black can try a KID like game with d6 (Although some lines, allow bg4 or even early e5) or play 2...d5 where he transposes to a Chigorin where black avoids the critical 3.nc3 lines.

2.d4 nc6 2.c4 and black can traspose to a chigorin via 2...d5, play it like a KID with 2...d6 or transpose to the black knights tango via 2...nf6, but i prefer 2...e5!? the lituanian variation. This move order is not only superior to the knight tango move order as not blocking the queen dissuades some early h4 sorties but  3.d5 bb4!?+ is also a unique playable variation here.

2.e4 just transposes to the Nimzowitsch defense, it goes without saying that you should be confortable here if you plan to play 1.d4 nc6. 

2.bf4 d5 allows for some unique play, he can now adopt a variety of set-ups , from bf5, to bg4 to f6-g5-h5. doing a KID formation vs the london is also an effective method. 

2.nc3 is harmless, and he gets the usual variety of choices with d5 and d6-KID but e5!? is also possible here.

of course, white also has like a good half dozen other moves like 2.g3 2.bg5 2.c3 etc. None are particularly threatening.

IF you are still interested in playing it, find some games with it by Short, Rapport, Stevic, Vlasenko, Mestrovic  and a few others.  If you are fond of the chigorin transpositions, you cant go wrong with Morozevich games.

LM_player
I used to play this to reach the Lithuanian, which I find very comfortable for Black:

1. d4 Nc6!? 2. c4 e5 3. d5 Nce7 4. e4 Ng6 5. Nc3 with ...Nf6, ...Bc5, ...d6 and ...Bg4 following.

Despite the spacial disadvantage, Black attains a very strong grip over the dark squares, and gets some strong outposts later on in the game.

Unfortunately, playing 1...Nc6 against 1. d4 means that you have to also learn the Nimzowitsch after 2. e4, know how to respond to an early 2. d4-d5 Mikenas pawn push, and know how to play a Chigorin Defense in case of 2. Nf3. And that’s a lot of work.

Nowadays, I play 1...Nc6 only against 1. c4 in order to avoid such transpositions. If White doesn’t play 2.d4, then I’ll just play into the English. But if he does, then I get a chance to play my preferred defense.
x-6421237233

Anybody read Schuyler's book about Nc6 ? It's actually very interesting when combined with 2...e5 . I'd like to try it.

darkunorthodox88
Tubize wrote:

Anybody read Schuyler's book about Nc6 ? It's actually very interesting when combined with 2...e5 . I'd like to try it.

its a very good book, esp the section on how to deal with the many set-ups of the "nimzo-pirc". I dont fully trust all lines thoough, esp his coverage of 1.d4 nc6 2.d5 where he advocates for the fxe6 lines. I simply dont think he covers the most challenging lines which im convinced practically force dxe6.

darkunorthodox88
ckchess2 wrote:

bad opening

you need to say more than that for people to take you seriously.