Aggressive Response to 4...Nf6 in the Scotch

Helzeth

In that case I'll give whatup an russian apology.

Förlåt.

There you go. I withdraw my accusation

Helzeth

I'm not an attacking player but I'd much rather play white if you play 14. rd1. Threat of nd5 is in the air and a bounch of stuff.
Shrug.

CHCL
TonyH

Its amusing to me to watch certain people mate statements as 1300 players with such passion. It is very typical of teenagers to feel they have figured things out based on their short life experience. The simple fact is that they lack the experience and have for whatever reason are passionately sticking to a belief because they are emotionally committed to it. One of the first things anyone should realize in chess (and life) is that it is ok to be wrong, infact being wrong and making mistakes are essential to improvement but so recognizing your errors and correcting them. 

Granted at times a new approach is useful but they also have to prove it with results. This is called the scientific method. You make a statement and prove it under certain conditions. Myself, alex and most certainly Pfren could beat jetfighter and gravinator in a game using any first move from either side this doesnt validate the ideas presented by the opening.

I would recommend anyone but especially Gravinator and Jetfighter to read Chess strategy for club players by grooten. It is one of the best books I have read in a long time and gives a relatively simple and effective way to assess postions . Nothing is perfect but its a great start and the author is a coach that has several strong (IM) level players as a result. ITs not perfect but its very logical in its presentation. 

Finally the King's gambit is actually VERY positional in its approach. Federov played it quite often as a GM and so did a US senior master rated 2400 (I cannt recall the name) and they played it not so much with an attack in mind but as a positional advantage. The reason you dont see it as often is that it is very double edged. THis means that the likelyhood of a losing result for the white player is higher than in other possible attempts. is this a bad thing? well if your plan is to pay for your rent and eat it could be. The other issue is that because of the wild tactical melee that ensues the tension in the position can  be resolved too quickly and the players end up with nothing to work with. At the amateur level this is usually not the case but as you move up it is. The ability to manage such positions is also 'required' knowledge. While Black has systems that can give it equal chances the task is challenging and more challenging than equalizing in the patzer opening 2. Qh5. And this is where the evidence to support a particular idea in an opening fails, How easily does black equalize? (ie gain equal chances in the middlegame)

Rubidium
TonyH wrote:

Its amusing to me to watch certain people mate statements as 1300 players with such passion. It is very typical of teenagers to feel they have figured things out based on their short life experience. The simple fact is that they lack the experience and have for whatever reason are passionately sticking to a belief because they are emotionally committed to it. One of the first things anyone should realize in chess (and life) is that it is ok to be wrong, infact being wrong and making mistakes are essential to improvement but so recognizing your errors and correcting them. 

Granted at times a new approach is useful but they also have to prove it with results. This is called the scientific method. You make a statement and prove it under certain conditions. Myself, alex and most certainly Pfren could beat jetfighter and gravinator in a game using any first move from either side this doesnt validate the ideas presented by the opening.

I would recommend anyone but especially Gravinator and Jetfighter to read Chess strategy for club players by grooten. It is one of the best books I have read in a long time and gives a relatively simple and effective way to assess postions . Nothing is perfect but its a great start and the author is a coach that has several strong (IM) level players as a result. ITs not perfect but its very logical in its presentation. 

Finally the King's gambit is actually VERY positional in its approach. Federov played it quite often as a GM and so did a US senior master rated 2400 (I cannt recall the name) and they played it not so much with an attack in mind but as a positional advantage. The reason you dont see it as often is that it is very double edged. THis means that the likelyhood of a losing result for the white player is higher than in other possible attempts. is this a bad thing? well if your plan is to pay for your rent and eat it could be. The other issue is that because of the wild tactical melee that ensues the tension in the position can  be resolved too quickly and the players end up with nothing to work with. At the amateur level this is usually not the case but as you move up it is. The ability to manage such positions is also 'required' knowledge. While Black has systems that can give it equal chances the task is challenging and more challenging than equalizing in the patzer opening 2. Qh5. And this is where the evidence to support a particular idea in an opening fails, How easily does black equalize? (ie gain equal chances in the middlegame)

The best post so far on this forum.

Ben_Dubuque

no more respectful, and with more to back it up, honestly I don't have the money for a chess book, because I would probably have a few

The_Gavinator

Damn whatupyodog got smoked by a Double Muzio, nice going... I remember I'd showed that to you as a possible blitz weapon and you said it sucks lol...

CHCL
The_Gavinator wrote:

Damn whatupyodog got smoked by a Double Muzio, nice going... I remember I'd showed that to you as a possible blitz weapon and you said it sucks lol...

LOL

Rubidium
whatupyodog2 wrote:

You won cuz i messed up KG still sucks.

-1

Why won't someone admit defeat?

Pawnpusher3

jetfighter13 wrote:

Dumb Russians, h5 seems like a great responce to h4, ever heard of the soltis variation of the Dragon.

Black looks fine to me

That line is extremely weak. Black can get into big problems if he isn't extremely careful

Ben_Dubuque

yeah we already went over that, I was taking what the position handed me, which was not much, I was trying to give a better line than Gavinators opponent.

Ben_Dubuque

Hemingway was good, I loved Old Man and the Sea

The_Gavinator

Haha, reading...

Ben_Dubuque

dude it was a good book, just like the Hobbit, To Kill a Mockingbird, Farenhiet 451, and uh, Tom Sawyer.

The_Gavinator

Yeah I guess you find it fun to read, but all of those books sound like school books, I think it's pointless for us to have to be quizzed on books in school. That's one of the many reasons USA sucks at education... TKAM was pretty good, until I had to take a test on it and it pissed me off to no end.

Ben_Dubuque

yeah thats the only thing I hate about Literature class, well one more year and then off to college.

anyway my easiest class is History, the only class where I can Physicaly sleep in, (everything is perfect, lighting(not too bright), volume of teacher (softish, until she starts yelling about General Sherman burning Georgia,...) tempurature (around 65 66 degrees), and of course the chair makes a huge difference) but I got an A in that one easy.

The other classes I actually had to do something, I kind of agree with Fischer on the American education System.

The_Gavinator

Did Fischer think the Amemrican school system sucks too? Why don't you check out my schedule yesterday on the previous page

Ben_Dubuque

saw it here was mine (the actual class will be in parentheticals)

1. watch House M.D. (Psycology)

2. Play chess/ Poker/ win money off my buddies (study hall)

3. Nap Time (American History)

4. Practice Math/ Solve Knight's Tour (Algebra II)

5. Lift Weights (Weight Training[150 LB Bench, 200 LB Squat, 165 LB Power Clean])

6. Nap Time (Theology, I go to a Church School, actually I read up on the Renisance Popes, who wern't nice people, and deffinately not pope worthy people)

7. Play Chess v. Challanger's/ Chem Teacher (Chem)

8. Read/ Nap Time ( English)

note: Block Schedual, so at #4 that switches from A- B day 1234, 5678.

Ben_Dubuque

oh if I couldn't sleep during Nap time, I simply wrote music or tried to solve the Knight's Tour.

here are some of the people I listen to

Clapton (entire career)

Lenon (again Entire career)

McCartny ("")

BOC

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Rush

ZZ Top

Robert Johnson

BB King

Ray Charles

Metallica

Stevie Ray Vaughn

Led Zeppelin

Hendrix

Kansas

Johnny Cash

Willie Nelson

Foriener

Bon Jovi

Van Halen

etc.

Helzeth
jetfighter13 wrote:

yeah we already went over that, I was taking what the position handed me, which was not much, I was trying to give a better line than Gavinators opponent.

You sure as hell did not take what the position gave you. You misjudged the position terribly. Do you really think it was a forced loss after bxc4?

 

You thought black was winning because of a double pawn. After that you think black had a passive but better position. After that you thought black was cramped but could draw. After that you thought black was a pawn down but could still draw(despite the lack of counterplay and positional inferiority, stating that a pawn up isnt winning). Finally you played yourself into a completely lost defensive position where you either lost two pawns and the exchange or going to be mated in the next ten moves where you said ''the position is unsalvagable, I just tried to do the best of it.)

Anyway, since I havent seen a proper parham refutation so far I'll just give an easy equalization attempt.
 


I'm sure there are ways to play for an advantage but at least here there is no way black is not equal. Having an automatic equal position in quite a few moves... Isnt this why gavinator said he was afraid of playing the scotch (while presenting a line which also gives black far more trouble than this junk!)

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