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any tips against the french defense?

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ShamusMcFlannigan
ConfusedGhoul wrote:

The Tarrasch is my personal favorite, I like how White gets a small positional advantage without having to fear a lot of counterplay from Black, many positions from the Tarrasch are open as well so the French player will typically be upset with that. If you don't like the Tarrasch then 3 Nc3 ...Nf6 3 Bg5 is also an aggressive option

Im a fan of the Tarrasch as well.  If you play Nc3 though, the Steinitz is considered more testing.  

darkunorthodox88
mrfreezyiceboy wrote:
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
mrfreezyiceboy wrote:

i've already tried most of the variations, classical, advance, exchange, tarrasch, etc, but i never like the positions i get from them.

here is how i play it.

 

with d3, bg2, 0-0 coming next. White's strategy will depend on black's approach, if he plays f6, take, play re1, and bully the heck out of e6 and d5 with your pieces, with things like, bh3, ng5, f5 etc. IF black focuses instead of queenside expansion, go for g4, ne2-ng3 and begin your own attack.

btw, this strange move order is actually quite subtle. white ought to play early a4, because otherwise , For example, d3, b5! and now nxb5, qa5+ nc3 d4 wins the piece. Also, nf3 ought to be played immediately after nc6, since, otherwise (Say bg2, nd4! nf3 nf5 is annoying)

it is ultimately an equal position,  but very rich in complications and the better play should win. It's also easy for black to treat it like some obscure KIA and miss key peculiarities of the position.

interesting variation, i'll try to remember all that. but what if black plays 3. d4 or c5 instead?

3. d4  4.ne2 and play it lika KIA position. Although d4 is not that common, since its not usually the kind of game a french player would normally aim for. 

3...c5 can be met with either 4.d3 or 4.exd5 exd5 5.bg2 (or even 5.d4!?) , both resemble or directly transpose to positions of the closed sicilian.

darkunorthodox88

https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1007507

llama47

You've tried the 4 main ones and aren't comfortable? This means switching variations isn't going to solve the problem... the problem is you've never taken the time to understand the positions. That's not a variation problem that's a lack of study+practice problem.

llama47
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
mrfreezyiceboy wrote:

i've already tried most of the variations, classical, advance, exchange, tarrasch, etc, but i never like the positions i get from them.

here is how i play it.

 

with d3, bg2, 0-0 coming next. White's strategy will depend on black's approach, if he plays f6, take, play re1, and bully the heck out of e6 and d5 with your pieces, with things like, bh3, ng5, f5 etc. IF black focuses instead of queenside expansion, go for g4, ne2-ng3 and begin your own attack.

btw, this strange move order is actually quite subtle. white ought to play early a4, because otherwise , For example, d3, b5! and now nxb5, qa5+ nc3 d4 wins the piece. Also, nf3 ought to be played immediately after nc6, since, otherwise (Say bg2, nd4! nf3 nf5 is annoying)

it is ultimately an equal position,  but very rich in complications and the better play should win. It's also easy for black to treat it like some obscure KIA and miss key peculiarities of the position.

I've never seen this, but I've tried various g3 lines... it seems this one has the same annoyance i.e. dxe followed by e5.

-

 

mrfreezyiceboy
llama47 wrote:

You've tried the 4 main ones and aren't comfortable? This means switching variations isn't going to solve the problem... the problem is you've never taken the time to understand the positions. That's not a variation problem that's a lack of study+practice problem.

that's also true, i haven't studied too much about the french positions, and definitely should

darkunorthodox88
llama47 wrote:
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
mrfreezyiceboy wrote:

i've already tried most of the variations, classical, advance, exchange, tarrasch, etc, but i never like the positions i get from them.

here is how i play it.

 

with d3, bg2, 0-0 coming next. White's strategy will depend on black's approach, if he plays f6, take, play re1, and bully the heck out of e6 and d5 with your pieces, with things like, bh3, ng5, f5 etc. IF black focuses instead of queenside expansion, go for g4, ne2-ng3 and begin your own attack.

btw, this strange move order is actually quite subtle. white ought to play early a4, because otherwise , For example, d3, b5! and now nxb5, qa5+ nc3 d4 wins the piece. Also, nf3 ought to be played immediately after nc6, since, otherwise (Say bg2, nd4! nf3 nf5 is annoying)

it is ultimately an equal position,  but very rich in complications and the better play should win. It's also easy for black to treat it like some obscure KIA and miss key peculiarities of the position.

I've never seen this, but I've tried various g3 lines... it seems this one has the same annoyance i.e. dxe followed by e5.

-

 

this isnt particularly scary, play will resemble, a g3 vienna (the early d5 lines)

llama47

It's not bad for white, it's just not the position I want, so it's annoying.

Anyway I play 3.Nc3 classical stuff against the French.

darkunorthodox88
llama47 wrote:

It's not bad for white, it's just not the position I want, so it's annoying.

Anyway I play 3.Nc3 classical stuff against the French.

idk what would satisfy you then, you went from having to deal with a closed crooked french, and got black to play something resembling a normal e5 game, and that too is annoying?

so what exactly are you looking for? some crazy gambit?

llama47

I like games where pawn structure choices are more important than piece play, at least initially. So positions that open up early are not my favorite. I'm sure like any equal position, if I studied it enough, I'd find winning ideas and it'd be interesting to me, but... meh tongue.png

Also I'm not the OP, so you don't have to worry about finding something that satisfies me.

orlock20

Chess.com refers to the opening as a basic Colle then transition to Queen's Gambit Declined by playing C4.

darkunorthodox88
llama47 wrote:

I like games where pawn structure choices are more important than piece play, at least initially. So positions that open up early are not my favorite. I'm sure like any equal position, if I studied it enough, I'd find winning ideas and it'd be interesting to me, but... meh

Also I'm not the OP, so you don't have to worry about finding something that satisfies me.

advanced? classical with f4? certain lines with the tarrasch? its almost always the opposite. People who hate facing french prefer not to manuever and fixate on pawn thrusts. If you like locked games, french should be a welcome sight. 

3.nc3 is what you play? so you like die inside when black plays the rubinstein/fort knox?

llama47
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
llama47 wrote:

I like games where pawn structure choices are more important than piece play, at least initially. So positions that open up early are not my favorite. I'm sure like any equal position, if I studied it enough, I'd find winning ideas and it'd be interesting to me, but... meh

Also I'm not the OP, so you don't have to worry about finding something that satisfies me.

advanced? classical with f4? certain lines with the tarrasch? its almost always the opposite. People who hate facing french prefer not to manuever and fixate on pawn thrusts. If you like locked games, french should be a welcome sight. 

3.nc3 is what you play? so you like die inside when black plays the rubinstein/fort knox?

Yeah, rubinstein is pretty annoying, but I don't mind attacking, and I've chosen some all-in type lines.

llama47

Which is impractical and annoying because lately I dislike having any kind of upkeep on my repertoire. If I'm going to be lazy and not really play OTB anymore, then probably better to choose come crap I can play without knowing much.

TitanChess666
The chigorin is great and confuses your opponent a lot. e4 e6 Qe2! c5 Nf3 Nc6 g3 Nf6 Bg2 Be7 d3 d5 e5 Nd7 0-0 0-0 c4! Is about +0.3