Best defences against the fried liver attack

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #41


    Here you go.

    I think the best diffence is to not get into the fried liver attack and play the guicco piano instead.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #44


    pfren wrote:
    Iuvavum wrote:

    I have to disagree. Before I started playing the main lines in the TKD with c6-dc6-bc6- etc... I tried this variation, and soon noticed that black can not proof enough compensation for the pawn, and there is no way of getting it back. 

    At the moment I believe that the whole TKD complex is very difficult to hold as black, and that is thanks to the variations that start when White after c6-dc6-bc6 plays Bd3!. (maybe steinitz was right when he stated that 4.Ng5 is the refutation to the TKD?)  

    So I would rather recommend playing the Italian Game, which starts with 3 ... Bc5. 

    Ah, I see. So you know more than I do. Congratulations.

    Not him per se but he did quote Steinitz.  4.Ng5 moves the same piece twice in the opening and gives the patzer vibe.  Still one must avoid the temptation to fall into a false sense of confidence, as Englund Gambit players depend on that for Bc3?? instead of Nc3! in the main line. 

    Stronger players have more credibility than us, which is why when Bobby Fischer said the king's gambit is busted I gave it up, not that I played it well anyway:

    Next game is a win, but I lost the opening because I helped the opponent's activity and later was fishing for a stupid tactical trick that even a class 1200 over the internet calculated that a free pawn was a queen trap:

    Next is some analysis on the Fried Liver I found:

    I'm personally a 3...Bc5 player but aren't afraid of the fried liver attack.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #45


    pfren wrote:

    Ah, I see. So you know more than I do. Congratulations.

    You could possibly teach a poor 2600+ GM how to play this, since he was unable to obtain anything without your precious aid:


    Of course there's always a game of chess to be played, as it is in every variation, I just gave my opinion on that Yandemirov Variation based on my own experience I had with it, and I never felt comfortable, especially when White plays the main line, which is 8.Nc3 not 8.Nf3...

    after which play may continue either as in the game

    Naiditsch - Graf (Bad Koenigshofen, 2007) 

    or if lets say after 8.Nc3 0-0, 9.0-0 c6, 10.dc6 Nxc6, 11.Bxc6 Bxc6, 12.Nf3 here it seems that Black may have the bishop pair and slightly better development, but in my opinion it's questionable if that gives sufficent compensation for a healthy extra pawn...

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #47


    The final position of this example shows that (not only) for an inexperienced player I believe it would be very difficult to proof sufficient compensation, probably because there simply is no compensation...

    And as I said in my first post to this thread, I think Black is also struggling in the main lines (c6-dc6-bc6) of the TKD, because of the very strong (8.Bd3, which also aims for slow but safe consolidation of the position and converting material advantage in the future)

    why all in all i strongly recommend going for an Italian Game with

    3 ... Bc5 

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #49


    condude2 wrote:

    The Traxler Counterattack, a hyper-aggressive opening. Of course, there is much more to know and it doesn't always win.

    After 5bc5 the white castles

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #51


    pfren wrote:

    So, you think white is better after, say, 13...Rc8?

    If this was a joke, then it wasn't a very good one, I'm afraid...

    Mr.Houdini prefers 13...Nd5 14.Nxd5 Qxd5 15.d3 Rfd8 or 15...f6, which rightly evaluates as flat level, but I'd rather try probing white's underdevelopment a tad more than that...

    Well maybe the position is about equal, but White has something concrete to play for (material advantage), and I can't see anything concrete on Blacks side yet, though of course I'm not a very high rated player.

    In response to the mentioned 13 ... Rc8, I would continue prophylactic play with 14. a3 to simply avoid any b5-b4 ideas... 

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #52


    Best defense:

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #53


    Enough of this nonsense! Just how bad is 6.Bb3 against 5...b5 ?

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #54


    Let's make it happen!

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #55


    Happy birthday, 13yearold, now, what, 15, I think?

    I know where you were 9 months ago, and with your current rating, I wonder if you have received the kind of answer you're looking for.

    In my blog, I have a post called "Surviving the Four Move Mate".

    As we are not far from the same level of play, perhaps I can communicate more effectively to you than these much stronger players.

    In the chess world, there are many players who like to torture weaker players with the 4-move checkmate. It is an old and tired gimmick that I'd like to see disappear.

    When we see the signs that our opponent is trying this quickmate, we must defend against it effectively. If we do not, even if the mate is not realized, the opponent who failed to defend will usually find him/herself in a loosing position within the first 4-10 moves of the game. This is how it works:

    There are a couple other variations as well:

    The signs of the four move mate, then, are clear: The Queen and Bishop (and as is the case in the 7 move mate, Queen and Knight) pointing at the e6/e7 square. A key square in defending, however, is the e4/e5; if these squares are not properly defended, the recipient of this attack will see massive damage:
    In addition to the Four Move mate, this sequence of moves often casually becomes another threat: the "Fried Liver" attack, which is the Knight and Bishop attack:

    A few key moves is all that is required to stop the four move checkmate:

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #56


  • 3 years ago · Quote · #57




    • Well, I wouldn't say that the previous banter was nonsense... just a battle of understanding from an IM vs a user using an engine that has a short horizon. Quite a common sight on these forums Laughing.

      As for your line... after 7.c4, what does White do on 7...h6? If 8.Rf3 then Lg4 is a strong pin. All of Black's pieces have a nice development, so position should be fine for them.

    • Sorry, 'nonsense' was a poor word choice. I agree, the simple 7...h6 looks problematic for white. So the answer to my question"just how bad is 6.Bb3?" is really, really bad!  Thanks!
  • 3 years ago · Quote · #58


    How about this:

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