English Opening

SmyslovFan
SaltyAsHell wrote:
SmyslovFan wrote:
...

In your world view of chess, how do you explain the popularity among GMs of the Italian game as Black?

It's not popular at all. Also it's way different when we talk about GMs, an amateur as white can go for the Deutz gambit, Greco gambit, Greco attack, Rosentreter gambit, Bird's attack, Evans gambit, Albin gambit... and you have to know all those lines. As black you have nothing of that, there's only the Rousseau gambit and it's bad for black.

And two posts later, you write, "I'm talking about amateurs..." It's not clear at all what you're talking about. 

Take a look at how many Italian games have been played just this year alone by top players. This year, just about all of the top players have fought in the Italian game. Carlsen and Caruana have both played it, and Aronian, Grischuk (especially Grischuk), Karjakin, So, and just about all of the top ten players in the world have played it in the last two years. It's very popular at all levels. There's a good chance we will see it in a few days in the World Championship. 

SmyslovFan

Here's just one game, played this year, between two players both rated +2700. 

 

voiceofTheAuthority
ThrillerFan wrote:
FrogCDE wrote:a

Isn't the bishop on that square?

 

That depends on the line.

 

1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nc6 3.Nc3 (3.Bg2 f5! and White has ZILCH!) f5 4.Nf3! Nf6 5.d4! e4 6.Nh4 (looking to entice g5 or pressure g6/f5) and the LSB is developed on e2 or d3, the Knight goes to g2 once g5 is played, then White plays h4, looking to entice g4, and once g4 (or gxh4) is played, the Knight has a beautiful outpost on f4.

 

None if this is possible after the horrid 3.Bg2??.  In the 2.g3 lines, any time Black plays ...Nc6, it should be answered by the waiting move, Nc3!

I am of the understanding that to fianchetto  the LSB is a hallmark to the English. Are you saying wait until later or it is alltogether a poor move? 

 

voiceofTheAuthority
SmyslovFan wrote:

The Piano is translated to "quiet game", not "slow game". Most experienced players know it is full of traps and tricky lines. If it were easy to play as Black, GMs would avoid it as White.

 

it is a good opening for novices because it gets the pieces out quickly and the fight for control of the center is easy to understand. 

 

It's a good opening for masters because it is complex and gives both sides winning chances.

I habe heard both, soft and slow, and as chessopera says, also means gentle, which is synonymous with soft. I don’t think quiet/slow games are mutually exclusive of traps and tricks ;-)  

SaltyAsHell
SmyslovFan wrote:
SaltyAsHell wrote:
SmyslovFan wrote:
...

In your world view of chess, how do you explain the popularity among GMs of the Italian game as Black?

It's not popular at all. Also it's way different when we talk about GMs, an amateur as white can go for the Deutz gambit, Greco gambit, Greco attack, Rosentreter gambit, Bird's attack, Evans gambit, Albin gambit... and you have to know all those lines. As black you have nothing of that, there's only the Rousseau gambit and it's bad for black.

And two posts later, you write, "I'm talking about amateurs..." It's not clear at all what you're talking about. 

Take a look at how many Italian games have been played just this year alone by top players. This year, just about all of the top players have fought in the Italian game. Carlsen and Caruana have both played it, and Aronian, Grischuk (especially Grischuk), Karjakin, So, and just about all of the top ten players in the world have played it in the last two years. It's very popular at all levels. There's a good chance we will see it in a few days in the World Championship. 

I'm clearly talking about amateurs on both comments :/

Also it depends on what you understand with popular. 1.d4 is more popular than 1.e4 and 1.e4 c5 is more popular than 1.e4 e5, also the ruy is more popular than the Italian. So no it's not popular, it's just played sometimes.

SmyslovFan
voiceofTheAuthority wrote:
SmyslovFan wrote:

The Piano is translated to "quiet game", not "slow game". Most experienced players know it is full of traps and tricky lines. If it were easy to play as Black, GMs would avoid it as White.

 

it is a good opening for novices because it gets the pieces out quickly and the fight for control of the center is easy to understand. 

 

It's a good opening for masters because it is complex and gives both sides winning chances.

I habe heard both, soft and slow, and as chessopera says, also means gentle, which is synonymous with soft. I don’t think quiet/slow games are mutually exclusive of traps and tricks ;-)  

I think anyone with a background in music can tell you what the Italian word for "slow" is.

Legeco

It would indeed be the giuoco adagio in that case.

Chessopera

Black must be very happy to face Italian game as it is much easier to equalise against rather than the deep Ruy Lopez.