Has the Berlin completely neutralized 1. e4?

  • #41

    1.e4 Refuted?? Heck, no!!

    So long as the bongcloud is around, 1.e4 is alive and well!!!

  • #42
    srikanth_narahari wrote:

    True in any sensible opening.

    I could not agree more!

  • #43
    falcogrine wrote:
    srikanth_narahari wrote:

    True in any sensible opening.

    I could not agree more!

    Even the sensibility of an opening (or lack thereof) can be a very subjective and personal matter. Just like college classes. :P

  • #44

    What's the Berlin??????

  • #45
    Squirrelflight wrote:

    What's the Berlin??????



  • #46

    if the berlin were to refute anything it would be the ruy lopez. there are many different tries for white to gain an advantage such as the scotch, vienna, and the italian game (can even transpose into variations of the ruy lopez that avoids the berlin usually for a tempo) 

  • #47

    The Berlin is a game, with white probably having a tiny something with perfect play. The better player is usually the side that wins, but lower rated white players most likely have better chances to win than lower rated  black players due to the potential of white's kingside pawn majority.

  • #48

    Thanks...

    srikanth_narahari wrote:

    Squirrelflight wrote:

    What's the Berlin??????

  • #49
    Oran_perrett wrote:

    kasparov has a nice game where he tears down the berlin wall...

    what? i thought Kasparov had a terrible record with the Berlin in a series he coudn't beat Kramnik once at all and when he played it he lost

  • #50

    has anyone tried to not exchange queens in the berlin to try and play for a win?

  • #51

    Qe2 would be a good move if white could actually avoid the exchange of queens. However the idea of Nf5 is to play Nd4. 

    So in the position black plays 9. ... Nd4 10. Nxd4 Qxd4 11. Rd1 Bg4 and black is atleast equal. 

  • #52

    People have a tendency to ridiculously overstate their topic to draw in contributors. As far as I know.. it has never failed.

    Just because a position might not look very appetizing to you doesn't mean that the whole line if refuted. Look at GM games. It is sort of a game of chicken between white and black. Deep Fritz 13 plays this line sometimes. It is quite strong. But by that logic, doesn't just about every line get refuted by a strong reply? (which to my understanding just about every line DOES have a strong reply.)

  • #53
    moonnie wrote:

    Qe2 would be a good move if white could actually avoid the exchange of queens. However the idea of Nf5 is to play Nd4. 

    So in the position black plays 9. ... Nd4 10. Nxd4 Qxd4 11. Rd1 Bg4 and black is atleast equal. 

    okay thanks just wondering why no one played that line

  • #54
    blasterdragon wrote:

    has anyone tried to not exchange queens in the berlin to try and play for a win?

    I posted an article a few weeks ago where I suggested 8. Nbd2 instead of 8. Qe2. This ensures the queens are kept on, and in my opinion, leads to complex play where white has a chance to play for the advantage (or at least make black think for himself).

  • #55

    Yep it has at the top level but of course you need to be Kramnik

  • #56

    when Q's are traded castling is not a big problem

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