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# How can we crush these London/Colle Systems?

• #61
zborg wrote:

The London System is NOT designed to squeeze out every last molecule of advantage from white's first move.  That's why nearly all lines against the London will equalize within the first 15-20 moves.

The object of most opening repertoires is to keep your opening on familiar ground.

To that end, the London is one of many choices of a Reversed Black System being played with the white pieces -- you're (essentially) playing DEFENSE, and waiting for your opponent to (perhaps) overreach, especially if he thinks your opening is substandard.

Why is this simple proposition so hard for people to glean ??

IF you want to go BIG with Theory, play the KIA against everything black chooses.

IF you want to go SMALLER with Theory, play a reversed Schlechter-Gruenfeld with the white pieces.

IF you want an even  smaller amount of theory still, play the London.

AND there are (still) many more choices for openings, along these lines.

Precisely, the London System turns white from attacker into defender: not a good setup to play with white.

• #62
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:
chesster3145 wrote:
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:

No LondonSystem, guys, this one is impossible to reach.

1. d4? c5! 2. d5 e5, and black gets fully equal.

Just ignore this guy.

He hates me because of the success of my book: https://www.chess.com/blog/Swordfish55/review-the-secret-of-chess

What success? You admitted in one of your threads that you have just one sale in the last 2 months.

• #63

It might have been the last 2 hours, I don't know.

• #64
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:

No LondonSystem, guys, this one is impossible to reach.

1. d4? c5! 2. d5 e5, and black gets fully equal.

i can agree with you, this is good point

only "problem" (maybe not) here is that black maybe too early defines his pawn structure (c5-d6-e5) in center, but still ok, the point - london is bypassed - is achieved

• #65

Play Bd6 and force off his London Bishop. What more is needed?

• #66
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:
chesster3145 wrote:
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:

No LondonSystem, guys, this one is impossible to reach.

1. d4? c5! 2. d5 e5, and black gets fully equal.

Just ignore this guy.

He hates me because of the success of my book: https://www.chess.com/blog/Swordfish55/review-the-secret-of-chess

you mean the book that sold twice in 2 years? lol

• #67
chesster3145 wrote:
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:
chesster3145 wrote:
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:

No LondonSystem, guys, this one is impossible to reach.

1. d4? c5! 2. d5 e5, and black gets fully equal.

Just ignore this guy.

He hates me because of the success of my book: https://www.chess.com/blog/Swordfish55/review-the-secret-of-chess

What success? You admitted in one of your threads that you have just one sale in the last 2 months.

actually not 2 months, he said 2 years haha

• #68

The first time I played against the London in a tournament game I was around 1900 and so was my opponent, I managed to win by copying his moves until around up to move 15. Don't do this, but if you really don't know what to do, use this strategy with caution.

• #69

There are various ways for black to get decent play or even be slightly better against the london based on the classical setups with ...d5. Of course you can play any system against the london if you know your stuff but the Nf3 Qb6 variation is very pleasant for black,thats why most people plat Nd2 instead of Nf3

• #70

if you do not avoid london but you want to play

there is no need to wind your oponent opening but just to win your opponent

so just keep playing, make some thing over the board, positionally or tactically, wait for your chance

• #71
ChessBooster wrote:
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:

No LondonSystem, guys, this one is impossible to reach.

1. d4? c5! 2. d5 e5, and black gets fully equal.

i can agree with you, this is good point

only "problem" (maybe not) here is that black maybe too early defines his pawn structure (c5-d6-e5) in center, but still ok, the point - london is bypassed - is achieved

Yeah, but those pawns are strong, can never become backward, white can never attempt a break with c4-c5, e4-e5, etc.

So, this is a very-well calculated positional risk, actually.

• #72
DrSpudnik wrote:

Play Bd6 and force off his London Bishop. What more is needed?

True, this also gives full equality or even tiny edge for black.

In the case Bd6 is protected by the c7 pawn, a bishop trade on d6 can only improve the black pawn structure after black captures cd6 towards the center. The d5,d6,e6 pawns seem ugly, but are in reality very strong, as after e6-e5 the e5 pawn is defended by the d6 doubled pawn, and black can further play e5-e4.

This is good opening if you want to draw at any cost with white, though.

I have frequently been using it against top engines, when I am in the mood to draw.

• #73
h4_explosive wrote:
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:
chesster3145 wrote:
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:

No LondonSystem, guys, this one is impossible to reach.

1. d4? c5! 2. d5 e5, and black gets fully equal.

Just ignore this guy.

He hates me because of the success of my book: https://www.chess.com/blog/Swordfish55/review-the-secret-of-chess

you mean the book that sold twice in 2 years? lol

IMs like it, GMs too.

What more is needed for a book to succeed?

• #74
Leo_C wrote:

There are various ways for black to get decent play or even be slightly better against the london based on the classical setups with ...d5. Of course you can play any system against the london if you know your stuff but the Nf3 Qb6 variation is very pleasant for black,thats why most people plat Nd2 instead of Nf3

In above line 9. h3 instead of Nbd2 might be better(to retreat the bishop to h2), but indeed black has the advantage.

• #75
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:
h4_explosive wrote:
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:
chesster3145 wrote:
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:

No LondonSystem, guys, this one is impossible to reach.

1. d4? c5! 2. d5 e5, and black gets fully equal.

Just ignore this guy.

He hates me because of the success of my book: https://www.chess.com/blog/Swordfish55/review-the-secret-of-chess

you mean the book that sold twice in 2 years? lol

IMs like it, GMs too.

What more is needed for a book to succeed?

One GM and one IM, and their reviews were mildly positive and nuanced. Good luck with that.

• #76
mecuelgalapieza wrote:
Stauntonmaster wrote:

London system and Colle are average type of openings and much inferior to Queen’s Gambit. Black can easily equalise against London system and Colle. London system and Colle suit average club players because they  are very easy to learn and play.

That´s just nonsense, can you explain why Colle and London are "average" and QG "infinitely better"?

OK. The London Barry Colle Stonewall is the Silman fan club. They dont have the means to transpose and are easily targeted. The QG player has to have more adaptability to play, including the London.

If the London player were more flexible, they would be playing better, but they often arent. 1 d4 d5 2 bf4 c5 and they dont play 3 dxc5. Now I dont know that they play 3 Nf3..thats kind of funny that they cant see the threat of cxd4 by black...but I wouldnt be surprised. Thats why for 1 d4 Nf6 2 Bf4, I say 2...d6. Because 99% of the time they will play e3 before h3, and then black plays nh5 and the bishop is traded for a knight.

• #77
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:
chesster3145 wrote:
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov wrote:

No LondonSystem, guys, this one is impossible to reach.

1. d4? c5! 2. d5 e5, and black gets fully equal.

Just ignore this guy.

He hates me because of the success of my book: https://www.chess.com/blog/Swordfish55/review-the-secret-of-chess

Thank you guys for the input, and btw Against 1.d4 I am picking up an old Indian setup with c6, d6, Qc7, Nf6, e5, Be7 and 0-0. what do you think about this setup?

• #78

Excellent setup.

That would be my second or third-best choice on 1. d4.

Its only downside is that it almost equalises, while after 1...c5 you can fully equalise.

• #79
[COMMENT DELETED]
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