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Is Nxc3 a bad move?? I find it as a loss of time from black what do you think?

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KingGS007

MSC157

As I already said, I believe black is not very developed. White has fianchetto-bishop, black nothing.

KingGS007

by playing Nxc3 u give away your good Night for my passive Night i think i dont find a single good reason for Nxc3 here. 

GSHAPIROY
KingGS007 wrote:

by playing Nxc3 u give away your good Night for my passive Night i think i dont find a single good reason for Nxc3 here. 

I agree

Scottrf
MSC157 wrote:

As I already said, I believe black is not very developed. White has fianchetto-bishop, black nothing.

But it's black to move, in any opening white will normally be 1 piece ahead in development at this stage.

I think the important factor is that a d pawn has been traded for a b pawn: white will have a pawn majority in the centre.

Also worth considering the open files: will white's b file or black's d file be more of a plus? Maybe black can put pressure on a centre by the g7 bishop and d file pressure.

I certainly don't think black's position is horrible, but he has to challenge the centre or white will just be better.

moonnie

This has to be looked at from 2 ways.

First: Did the black knight manouvre give white a development advantage. Counting the development shows in fact that white did not get a significant development advantage. The move c3 can only be usefull to build a center. 

The white center after d4/e4 might look strong but in fact is is nothing more than a grunfeld like center. Black can undermine it with moves like c5 and bg7. Even stronger put. In the grunfeld the Bg2 systems often are not the most challanging systems.

Black managed to exchange a knight giving relieve to his slightly cramped position.

In other words .. the exhange of knights is not bad for black as white is forced in a grunfeld setup where the c3 move might be usefull but the bishop on g2 is not as well places as on other squares. 

In conclusion white did not gain a larger advantage then the starting move already gave him 

MSC157
Scottrf wrote:

Also worth considering the open files: will white's b file or black's d file be more of a plus? Maybe black can put pressure on a centre by the g7 bishop and d file pressure.

I certainly don't think black's position is horrible, but he has to challenge the centre or white will just be better.

Yup, I played 6...Bg7

NewArdweaden

It looks absolutely fine for black. Similar exchange happens in Gruenfeld, but black always has enough to compensate for white's majority in the center.

KingGS007
NewArdweaden wrote:

It looks absolutely fine for black. Similar exchange happens in Gruenfeld, but black always has enough to compensate for white's majority in the center.

In Grunfeld defense white plays the move e4 and here white can still play e3 if there is lot of pressure on d pawn and i dnt think the bishop on g7 is gonna be very effective thnkz to pawn on c3, d4 and e3 so why black wants to exchange the Night on c3 and give white such a good center and why cant black play the move e6 and keep a strong Night in center.??

moonnie

Sure you can play e3/d4/c3 however e3 can hardly be considered a development move since you already moved you bishop to g2 and you have to play e4 sometime anyways. Moves like e3 will surely give black equality

Scottrf

It's just a different way of playing. Black still has pawn breaks c5 or possibly e5, with heavy pieces on the d file with support from the bishop the centre isn't staying. You let white gain a strong centre to attack it.

MSC157

Here's our chat:

KingGS007: u could have won the game if u played opening bttr way ur ngt frm g2 came to capture my ngt on c3 which moved once and i had bttr center and moreover my bishio on g2 was an excellent peice though i had problems in btwen bt whn i pinned ur ngt to queen i knew it was a draw nw

KingGS007: my whole strategy was nt to give u enuf tym to bring ur peices out in opening and it happned as u wasted all ur good tym to capture my ngt on c3 by moving ur kngts 3 tyms lol tht was a strategical flaw rest u r a bttr player so this tym only a draw

MSC157: I don't think so. I believe I spend too much time with Nc6-Ne5-Nc4-Na5 maneuver. Because opening is much or less the same for all similar d4-stuffs.

KingGS007: u might wonder black does the same in grunfeld defense bt there white advances with e4 and more important thing he plays c5 and in a similar structre in a GM game the ngt on c3 was nt captured bt the other ngt bt was rather supported by a pawn which u could nt do here as strategy this was a flaw in opening :)

KingGS007: i knew if i could take an edge over u it was going to be strategy nt tactics lol

MSC157: This opening, including 6...Bg7 is called English: Anglo-Grünfeld, Smyslow variation. So I guess it's sound. :)

KingGS007: yeah bt evrything written in book is nt so good and may be u gotta review ur logic over here whts the differnec whn white doesnt pay e4 and whn he plays e4 and thn u capture the ngt on c3 with the help of an engine

KingGS007: without the move e4 i have option to play e3 simply calling the move c5 bad thts it

KingGS007: and aftr e4 i cant bring it back..:)

KingGS007: instead of Nxc3 e6 was a good move ur ngt was strong in center with a good bishop on g7 and if i capture ur ngt thn i just make life easier for ur bishop on c8

KingGS007: and u also get open e file for ur rook

KingGS007: and thn c5 Nc6 gives u full cntol of d4 square and i think black is bttr though engine may say game is equal bt i will enjy black evn more and thn b6 Bb7 u have a kool position..:)

KingGS007
moonnie wrote:

Sure you can play e3/d4/c3 however e3 can hardly be considered a development move since you already moved you bishop to g2 and you have to play sometime anyways. Moves like e3 will surely give black equality

e3 will be the most logical whn d4 is attacked of course otherwise a waster of tym andc3 is already played after bxc3 so i think its nt a bad waste of tym i wonder why u ppl cant understand e6 is simply the best move in the position.

NewArdweaden

In the game, nothing much stayed from the 'strong center'.

KingGS007
NewArdweaden wrote:

In the game, nothing much stayed from the 'strong center'.

we probably are talking about the correct ideas in opening not the whole of the game of course towards the end white was a pawn up but was a dead draw position thts it. i probably bet a strong titled player will go for e6 nt Nxc3?! i am really enjying so many good ideas though..:)

KingGS007
johnsmithson wrote:

Has to be fine to play nxc3....  Morozevich and Mamedynov have both played that move.

Nxc3 makes more sense whn the pawn is on e4 frm white as thn with move like c5 black easily builds a good attack towards the center.

KingGS007

of course black is nt losing after Nxc3 bt we are trying to find a better and more logical move other than Nxc3 which i find is a very simple move e6!

Scottrf

Why we can't understand? Surely trolling?

You realise that everyone that has commented is a higher rated player? Black isn't behind in development and has play against the centre.

moonnie

because e6 is perhaps the worst logical move in the position inviting al sort of nasty stuff over the dark squares ? 

KingGS007
Scottrf wrote:

Why we can't understand? Surely trolling?

 

You realise that everyone that has commented is a higher rated player? Black isn't behind in development and has play against the centre.

can you probably tell the best moves for black to attack the center? c5 is simply useless after as c3 is already played after bxc3 and if u find some more pressure on d point a simple move e3 kills it so wht black can do i wanna knw it?