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Is the Bongcloud meant for chess experts only?

  • #1

    I have become a better player over the past few years, but I still shy away from the Bongcloud due to the massive amount of guts and improvisation required.

    I believe that my record with the Bongcloud is worse than with my other preferred moves against 1. e4 e5. This is despite the fact that I have read that 2. Ke2 is White's ballsiest response to Black's 2. ... e5. So does this mean that you need to be of a certain skill level to play 2. Ke2 successfully?

  • #2

    Yes, none but experts should play the Bongcloud. And I'm not sure experts should play it either.

  • #3

    It's pretty obvious from your comment that you have little knowledge of the Bongcloud theory, and there is no improvisation as you mistakenly think. For a quick recap of the most important stuff, you can read http://www.chessmastery.com/bongcloud.pdf ; however theory has advanced a lot since that paper was published, so you will have to do some work by yourself. Do not forget that learning Bongcloud theory can be an exhausting effort but it is very rewarding.

    But if you ultimately find that the Bongcloud doesn't suit your style, why not try...the Parham attack?

  • #4
    ArgoNavis wrote:

    It's pretty obvious from your comment that you have little knowledge of the Bongcloud theory, and there is no improvisation as you mistakenly think. For a quick recap of the most important stuff, you can read http://www.chessmastery.com/bongcloud.pdf ; however theory has advanced a lot since that paper was published, so you will have to do some work by yourself. Do not forget that learning Bongcloud theory can be an exhausting effort but it is very rewarding.

    But if you ultimately find that the Bongcloud doesn't suit your style, why not try...the Parham attack?

    I read through that brilliant book by Andrew Fabbro, but would like to point out that none of the games in it are complete. I can only asume that this was because either a) the game was obviously a victory for the Bongcloud player or b) The Bongcloud player, having incredibly outplayed his opponent, made a serious blunder late in the endgame that ruined his clearly winning position. And I agree with ImLagTheFlagger that the Bongcloud can (and should) be played by everyone. (as long as they are okay with losing).

  • #5

    https://www.chess.com/live/game/2541042933

    I'm only 2000, and I can play the Bongcloud just fine.

  • #6
    Boyangzhao wrote:

    https://www.chess.com/live/game/2541042933

    I'm only 2000, and I can play the Bongcloud just fine.

    Come on, man... only 2000? That's like saying Magnus Carlsen is only the world champion! At 2000 you are an expert, so of course you can play the Bongcloud (although in that game in particular the opening you played was actually not the Bongcloud, since black played 1. ... d6). I'm talking about regular players like myself and most other people here. When I play the Bongcloud I generally end up losing, so I'm wondering if that means I shouldn't play the opening until I become a better player, or if I'm just doing something wrong.

  • #7
    ArgoNavis wrote:

    It's pretty obvious from your comment that you have little knowledge of the Bongcloud theory, and there is no improvisation as you mistakenly think. For a quick recap of the most important stuff, you can read http://www.chessmastery.com/bongcloud.pdf ; however theory has advanced a lot since that paper was published, so you will have to do some work by yourself. Do not forget that learning Bongcloud theory can be an exhausting effort but it is very rewarding.

    But if you ultimately find that the Bongcloud doesn't suit your style, why not try...the Parham attack?

    In the first illustrative game (Lenny-Fischer) in the pdf you link to the author describes the game as positionally lost for Black after White's move 9. What was wrong with 9...QxN#?

     

    This is the game (except he gives 7...Nf6??, which would indeed be question marky).

     

  • #8
    MARattigan wrote:
    ArgoNavis wrote:

    It's pretty obvious from your comment that you have little knowledge of the Bongcloud theory, and there is no improvisation as you mistakenly think. For a quick recap of the most important stuff, you can read http://www.chessmastery.com/bongcloud.pdf ; however theory has advanced a lot since that paper was published, so you will have to do some work by yourself. Do not forget that learning Bongcloud theory can be an exhausting effort but it is very rewarding.

    But if you ultimately find that the Bongcloud doesn't suit your style, why not try...the Parham attack?

    In the first illustrative game (Lenny-Fischer) in the pdf you link to the author describes the game as positionally lost for Black after White's move 9. What was wrong with 9...QxN#?

     

    This is the game (except he gives 7...Nf7??, which would indeed be question marky).

     

     

    This is the problem:



  • #9
    macer75 wrote:
    MARattigan wrote:
    ArgoNavis wrote:

    It's pretty obvious from your comment that you have little knowledge of the Bongcloud theory, and there is no improvisation as you mistakenly think. For a quick recap of the most important stuff, you can read http://www.chessmastery.com/bongcloud.pdf ; however theory has advanced a lot since that paper was published, so you will have to do some work by yourself. Do not forget that learning Bongcloud theory can be an exhausting effort but it is very rewarding.

    But if you ultimately find that the Bongcloud doesn't suit your style, why not try...the Parham attack?

    In the first illustrative game (Lenny-Fischer) in the pdf you link to the author describes the game as positionally lost for Black after White's move 9. What was wrong with 9...QxN#?

     

    This is the game (except he gives 7...Nf7??, which would indeed be question marky).

     

    This is the problem:

    Exactly. But Fabbro gives 9.f3 a "!" and describes the position after 9.f3 (printed exactly as above) by:

     

    In this arch-typical Marijanezy Bind position, a clever Black player might be able to
    delay the inevitable with some tactical wizardry, but positionally, he is lost.

     .

    Doesn't inspire confidence.

  • #10

    Like Capablanca once said, "Men play the Sicilian, warriors play the French, champions play the Bongcloud." In the ARC Attack variation in the Bongcloud White has some trouble but he has an interesting Knight sacrifice and a good initiative. The Irish system is a good line to follow but it's quite complicated but once the smoke is clear you should end up with a good endgame. So no, the Bongcloud is not meant for experts but with the complicated and tactical middlegames you end up with, you should hit the tactics trainer before playing the Bongcloud.

  • #11
    In the first illustrative game (Lenny-Fischer) in the pdf you link to the author describes the game as positionally lost for Black after White's move 9. What was wrong with 9...QxN#?
     

     

    What utter wizardry.

  • #12

    This Bongcloud  Opening is very interesting 🙂I would like to set up a team match with this opening. How to do that? Can someone please help me to give me one code for white and one for black ?

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