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"It doesn't matterf which opening moves you play...."

  • #1

    "...because I'm loud, the center of attention (because I'm loud), people want to hear what I have to say so they'll agree with me, a billion lemmings can't be wrong, and you're a loser!"

     

    1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 exd5 4. c4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Bb4 6. Nf3 O-O 7. Bd3 Re8+ 8. Be3 Ng4 9. O-O Rxe3 10. fxe3 Nxe3 11. Bxh7+ Kxh7 12. Qd3+ Nf5 13. Ne5 Qf6
    14. Nxd5 Qg6 15. Nxg6 fxg6 16. Nxb4 Nc6 17. Nxc6 bxc6 18. Qh3+ Kg8 19. g4 Nd6 20. Qf3 Bb7 21. c5 Nc4 22. Qf7+ Kh7 23. Qxc4 Re8 24. Qf7 Re2 25. Rf3 Bc8
    26. Rh3# {Black checkmated} 1-0

     

    Opponent was rated just under 2000 in THAT rating pool (probably 2150 strength or so).

     

    "Aw, but he just BLUNDERED.  That proves nothing."

     

    Imagine that: someone who doesn't study the opening, BLUNDERS in the opening!  One minor adjustment next time out and I'll just fall apart, really I will! 

     

  • #2

    why don't you put it in diagram form.

  • #3
  • #4

    matterf... a nuke has gone off in my mind, killing most active braincells...

  • #5

    Black would have come out of this opening ahead after 13...dxc4 14 Qxc4 Qxd4+.  The correct quote is more like "It doesn't matter what openings you play, as long as you play with sound opening principles."

    Of course, it ALWAYS matters what moves you make.

  • #6

    blah blah blah

  • #7
    MickinMD wrote:

    Black would have come out of this opening ahead after 13...dxc4 14 Qxc4 Qxd4+.  The correct quote is more like "It doesn't matter what openings you play, as long as you play with sound opening principles."

    Of course, it ALWAYS matters what moves you make.

    You are correct, though 13. Nxd5 is +2.35 for White.

    This was one of my first games with this trap line, so I had yet to perfect it.  This is one of the reasons I'm still training and not yet playing OTB.

     For training purposes, my main concern was busting up the unsound pawn-grab on e3.  Once I had done that, I went on auto-pilot.  Now I have the trap internalized so this won't happen again.  One of the benefits of training 15-17 hours a day.

     

  • #8

    It matters when you have no idea what to do in the opening, though, still know some opening principles, and just want to "change it up," by making weird moves to "throw off" your opponent.  I play two people that do this, and most of the time, they end up in bad games, not just because I am better than them, but because they give me an opening advantage by playing a really stupid opening.  I can recall a game where my opponent was white.  Forget about the fact that he allowed a knight fork that was easy to see, but if you looked at his pieces, you will see that his three pieces where undeveloped, and were basically out of the game, due to poor pawn moves.  If you don't know any opening the temptation is to just experiement by playing random stuff and 9 times out of 10 they end up doing something that is really stupid.  Why reivent the wheel when all you have to do is follow the directions on how to make it?  Coming from a long and hard path to where I am today, which isn't very good considering the amount of games I have played, I recall a time where I knew nothing about the opening game.  I did exactly what I preach against now, make up dumb opening moves, and get people wondering what game I am playing as it didn't resemble chess in the slightest bit.  My record back then was like 8000 loses and 400 wins.  I shit you not.  Learn openings, please.  Don't make the same mistake I made and just played and played and played without learning the basics.  I think people that are as good as you tend to forget that a lot of work has been done for you now and it is easy to play a game without really knowing the opening being played, because after having learned basic opening principles, and having learned a lot of basic tactical motifs, traps, and mating nets, you are well aware of what can happen, regardless of the opening being played.  More or less, people you you, can "wing" any opening.  Much like I can wing an opening in bullet or 3 minute chess, but that is a different story.  

     

    I think it is a mistake to not learn an opening repertoire once you reach a certain point (I do not know what that point is) in rating.  But I'm sure that point is still at the beginner level.  Because, like I said, you want to avoid playing a game that is different from chess, making up dumb moves, that don't even make sense, just because you want to "change it up."

     

    I mean imagine someone playing f3 as white?  Certainly this move by itself isn't losing, however, the beginner doesn't know enough to develop accordingly so that he can get back into the game.  They will just play dumb moves and end up losing the game, starting from a bad move f3, to another bad move, (whatever), leading to a mate or worse.  I'm not playing against beginners either.  I'm playing against people that are well aware of the game of chess, yet they do not know a lot of opening theory, and constantly make dumb opening moves for the sake of "changing it up," and end up losing outright because little did they know the game turned into a positional nightmare for them.  

     

    If the object is to not learn opening lines, but rather, just study tactics, that is probably mostly true.  But, all players should at least know a few basic moves on any opening, and know what to do in their repertoire, or comfortzone in chess.  Not because it's good to study openings, but it's good to have a guide, rather than just go out experimenting into unknown waters when you have no idea what you are doing at the beginner level.  I mean I would know better 9 times out of ten, and I'm not that good of a player, but people at the 1200 level or people at the level I have played against recently really need more guidance than just choose e4 or d4 about the opening.  That's all I had when I started out, and I know now that that wasn't enough.

  • #9

    I booked up really deep in a line in the sicilian (1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Nxc6! bxc6 7.e5!) and I played someone OTB (about 1800 USCF) (casual game) in it today, I got a fantastic position out of the opening (he allowed this line). This has happened multiple times when he has allowed me to walk into my prep in this line, and I heard him mutter something like "not again..." 

    For this forum, StupidGM may have a point.

  • #10
    logozar wrote:

    I booked up really deep in a line in the sicilian (1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Nxc6! bxc6 7.e5!) and I someone OTB (about 1800 USCF) (casual game) in it today, I got a fantastic position out of the opening (he allowed this line). This has happened multiple times when he has allowed me to walk into my prep in this line, and I heard him mutter something like "not again..." 

    For this forum, StupidGM may have a point.

    This punk would be wise never to cross my sight, ever.

  • #11

    Actually, I'm taking an indefinite leave from this site.  Have some unfinished business to attend to.

  • #12

    I'm not sure what the consensus is here but I believe White has compensation in this position. I've had this position with White and a lot of people just grab the material and stop calculating after ...Nxe3 but there's a lot more to the position than that.

  • #13

    There's a difference between studying opening theory and knowing/not knowing basic opening ideas

  • #14
    dpnorman escribió:

    There's a difference between studying opening theory and knowing/not knowing basic opening ideas

    There is also a difference between trolling and being a crazy guy with a mid life crisis.

    https://kiwifarms.net/threads/ray-gordon-gordon-roy-parker.30665/

    https://gambit.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/23/new-lawsuit-against-chess-federation/?_r=0

    http://www.internetlibrary.com/cases/lib_case489.cfm

     

    Worst part is he lives off your dad´s taxes.

  • #15

    Why doesn't anyone address how a "2150 strength-player" hung his queen like that? free queen for no reason?

  • #16

    It's not that black didn't know the opening, it's that black didn't pay enough attention to some basic elements, such as piece development (at the beginning of the 16th move, he still has 3 undeveloped pieces on the queen side!), plus miscalculated some tactics.

     

    Importance of knowing openings is obvious, no need to support it with totally unrelated examples. wink.png

  • #17
    Pawn_Checkmate έγραψε:

    Why doesn't anyone address how a "2150 strength-player" hung his queen like that? free queen for no reason?

    Looks closer to 1150 (at best). Simple piece development with 8...Bg4 leaves white with several problems to solve, and this move is the first one a class C player would consider.

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