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NOVEL FRENCH DEFENCE ADVANCE

  • #1
    In the October edition of Chess magazine I read with interest regarding the following game which was the final of the England Women's Championship, held in West Brom last month. This approach to the opening of the French was a complete novelty to me, which I found very interesting. Indeed the whole game was very entertaining. This sent me searching ChessBase live where there are 2319 games of this variation. I would like to hear from folk who have played this line and what results have been achieved.
     

     

  • #2

    What a weird game! Although white seems to have scored well with this line in the database, it really doesn't look like anything Black should be afraid of. I would have been tempted to try 6...Ne7. But the game seemed pretty close to even until 15.Qb4? The unfortunate position of the queen gave Black to many free tempi and White was cut to ribbons. 

  • #3

    Indeed  , it's not French defense.

    In  French defense  it's Black's move.

    Exactly same position occured in the game but it is white's move.Black lost a tempo(from c6-c5).

     

  • #4

    Obviously true, but the resulting position is certainly a French pawn structure

  • #5

    I would agree with mickynj, it has transposed into a french position.

     

  • #6

    Caro Kan advance always transposes in French pawn structure(but not in French defense).That is no secret.

    With the bishop inside the pawn chain it's more French pawn structure than anything else but the lost tempo clearly means that it can't     be French defense and the position must be examined as Caro Kan.You can't have the position on move 4 with white to play from French defense even if you try.

     

  • #7

    I fail to understand what mrs Maroroa (WIM, wife of GM Gawain Jones) was thinking when she played 8.bxc5- I guess her husband has cooked the line at home?

    Following the game, Black was much worse after the natural 10...Nc6, and losing after 12...0-0? 13.Qf6! (a very strong intermediate move, which could have been missed by a lot of GM's).

    Top British women are more or less familiar with that Caro Kann line, since Jovanka Houska is employing it as Black all the time.

     

  • #8

    As a practical matter, what does the phrase " the position must be examined as Caro Kan" mean. The position is the position. The board has no memory. No matter what you call the opening, the position and its problems remain the same

  • #9
    mickynj wrote:

    As a practical matter, what does the phrase " the position must be examined as Caro Kan" mean. The position is the position. The board has no memory. No matter what you call the opening, the position and its problems remain the same

    Indeed , and one of the main "problems" of the position  is that Black has lost a tempo.That certainly changes a lot. And that is what I mean when I say that it must be examined as Caro Kan.  

  • #10

    I did not expect to cause such a debate over the position! Whatever it is, i find it interesting and maybe something I might try. Thank you for posting the game of  a Scotland player IM Frendzas, a very interesting example.

  • #11

    You caused an interesting debate.

         Of course it is not important what name you put in an opening.The position is what it is.You can call it Madagascarian defense if you like , nothing will change.

         My disagreement had to do with the title of the topic.

    It's not novel(well known for many decades) and it's not French defense advance.

     

  • #12

      " My disagreement had to do with the title of the topic.

    It's not novel(well known for many decades) and it's not French defense advance."

    I have to disagree with your narrow outlook on this. It is novel to me as an alternative way to reach a position I recognise as French territory. Is it not the case that often similar positions can arise from very different openings? So for my personal reasons, my title stands. The fact that I posted this from a well respected UK magazine (Chess, October Issue) must be taken into consideration.

  • #13
    EndeavourMorse wrote:

      " My disagreement had to do with the title of the topic.

    It's not novel(well known for many decades) and it's not French defense advance."

    I have to disagree with your narrow outlook on this. It is novel to me as an alternative way to reach a position I recognise as French territory. Is it not the case that often similar positions can arise from very different openings? So for my personal reasons, my title stands. The fact that I posted this from a well respected UK magazine (Chess, October Issue) must be taken into consideration.

       You want to use Caro Kan to reach "French territory"?But that is not possible unless White cooperates.And if you want "French territory" why not play "French defense"?

         The UK magazine calls it French defense?Who is the author of the article?

  • #14

    Maintaining a solid d-pawn in the center? French yes, Caro no'

    Problem Bishop on c8 locked behind its own pawn chain? French yes, Caro no.

    In short, this position has  the defining characteristics of the French Defense and none of the Characteristics of the Caro Kann. It's a bad French position, where Black has lost a tempo, but "analyzing it as a Caro" seems pretty pointless.  Of course, it doesn't matter what you call it. The position is the position

  • #15

    In any case, it's fun to have an argument where people respect each other, and no one is calling anyone names!

  • #16
    mickynj wrote:

    Maintaining a solid d-pawn in the center? French yes, Caro no'

    Problem Bishop on c8 locked behind its own pawn chain? French yes, Caro no.

    In short, this position has  the defining characteristics of the French Defense and none of the Characteristics of the Caro Kann. It's a bad French position, where Black has lost a tempo, but "analyzing it as a Caro" seems pretty pointless.  Of course, it doesn't matter what you call it. The position is the position

    You might be right Micky.

        Yet in Encyclopaedia of chess openings this exact position is examined in Caro Kan(page 101).The author is Miroslav Filip , No 8 in the world in his time.

         You can have French defense positions from Sicilian too.Yet they are Sicilian , not French defense.

       Here is  a Ruy Lopez position that is not Ruy Lopez.

    This happens in chess a lot.

         The type of position is one thing , the opening is another.

    Can we agree with that?
     

  • #17

    It’s a Caro. It’s as simple as that. It’s a very well known line and you will not find it in any books on the French. It’s called the Arkell-Khenkin variation. 

  • #18
    JamesColeman έγραψε:

    It’s a Caro. It’s as simple as that. It’s a very well known line and you will not find it in any books on the French. It’s called the Arkell-Khenkin variation. 

    You can find it in a few Caro books, though- e.g. Houska's on Everyman. Dreev, which is a faithful Caro fan, has written a book including this line. The weird thing is that he recommends it for white!

    Maroroa's crazy line is new, unless I'm missing something.

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