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play against the kings indian?

  • #1

    HI guys, i play d4 as white and i was wondering what is generally the best response to the kings indian. At the moment i play the four pawns attack but i don't know much theory to it and i don't want to learn it if it's bad (some people think its good but some thnk its bad as well). any help? thanks...

  • #2

    The various lines of the classical (9.Ne1, 9.Nd2, Bayonet 9.b4, Petrosian 7.d5, Gligoric 7.Be3, etc) are White's best.

  • #3

    A "quiet" approach with d4, Nf3, g3, Bg2, 0-0 and a later c4 (if ever) also has quite a bit of positional poison: white has more space, and black no mechanical attacks with either ...e5 or ...c5.

  • #4

    I would say the saemisch cant be too bad against the KID since it was the preference of 4 world champions . However , you should try several different systems until you find what suits you best . 

  • #5

    u mean the samisch?

  • #6

    I think the best way to play against the KID is the one you're most comfortable with. For me the bayonet variation is fun. I like having a double-edged game. A lot of people like Ne1 and nd2 stuff instead of immediate 9.b4 though.

    And instead of the mainline, many many people are big fans of the saemisch, and fianchetto variations.

  • #7

    Resorting to outside help to beat me huh?

  • #8
    topj wrote:

    u mean the samisch?

    No, he means the Sämisch - the correct English transposition of "ä" is in fact "ae".

  • #9

    There is also the Averbakh, with which I have a very good score as white. I lost just one game with it (very badly, against expert KID GM Krum Georgiev), I won rather easily against GM Grivas, drew with ease against a couple of GM's, while against lower rated player it has been a cleansweep.

    It's a rather quiet positional system, but it does have some theory to memorize (the supposed main variation is a technical "equal" endgame where analyses stop after move 50).

  • #10

    if you draw to GM's so easily why aren't you a GM?

  • #11
    MalSwanOfZaga10 wrote:

    if you draw to GM's so easily why aren't you a GM?

    Do you have any smarter questions to ask?

    No? Not surprised...

  • #12

    thanks guys because loads of play it, i guess the best option is to try all these suggestions like @reb said, thanks!

  • #13
    MalSwanOfZaga10 wrote:

    if you draw to GM's so easily why aren't you a GM?

    yeah come back come back when you get even close to pfrens rating

  • #14

    Don't play the Classical King's Indian because it's comfortable. It's not. It's extremely sharp. I think it's also White's best bet for an objective advantage against the KID. The Saemisch is a bit slower and offers white some really interesting positional opportunities, but Black should be able to equalise in correspondence chess.

    The Averbakh has a great pedigree but hasn't been researched as thoroughly as the Classical or the Saemisch. That's an excellent practical choice and may even do well in correspondence games!  Avrukh's repertoire with g3 has been questioned recently. I'm not sure I'd trust it in a game against a well-prepared opponent or in correspondence.

  • #15

    I gurantee pfren has put in far more time than me so on ratios Im better

  • #16

    I agree that the Saemisch or the Averbakh is your best shot to mop up a black player. They probably expect the main lines. 

    There is nothing wrong with the 3 pawn centre followed by a Bayonet or something like it. Black gets attacking chances though. I played both sides and often I barely escaped. Knowing the ideas meant I usually got by though.

    I can't do much with it you don't want to learn theory. Maybe you should play the exchange line then. 

  • #17

    5.Be2 followed by g4 is worth a shot.


  • #18

    Nice, Bruce! That looks like a GREAT blitz try. Here's what could happen in a slower time control.

  • #19

    The 1 line that gives me big problems with black is the Bayonet and black can either be crushed positionally or tactically very easily. If you are playing players under 2000 I imagine they would be unfamiliar with the system and you would be able to mop up the points. 

  • #20

    Also, I find hard to follow the FUD about the Avrukh suggested lines being "unsound". IMO they are just fine, it's just the analysis which is unsound (blindly trusting engine evaluation). The only suggested line which isn't good is a Grunfeld one, where Black holds his own very easily.

    Here is a recent CC game of mine, where I played the "refuted" Avrukh line 8.Qd3. The game was easy-peasy, first Black got a completely equal position (according to Houdini) and then he was pushed outside the board. If you feel that 8.Qd3 is refuted in some other way, feel free to comment- IMO it's just fine, Avrukh is right, and the engines are wrong.

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