Ponziani Opening

I really must be missing something about white's fourth move. 4.Qc4+_ ssems wrong.  4.Qb3+ seems correct.

I evaluate them as equally good. Why is Qc4+ wrong.

@Loek but black still has a pair of bishops even if white has better pawns.

4. Qb3 wins outright!  4.Qc4 allow 4...Qd5  4. Qb3 checkmates or wins a Queen or a rook..

For those interested: sometimes there is more than one move which will eventually win in these puzzles. However the line given in the puzzle is a result of much analysis as these are from positions in a very heavily analyzed vote chess game.

For example in the 2nd puzzle there are other ways--more slow and not as pretty--to eventually win but 4. Qb3+ is the most powerful and leads to a very nice end of the game.

FYI Ponz, the puzzle solution gives 4. Qc4+

Lots of laughs, my mistake, I did not look at it.  If the puzzle solution is 4.Qc4+ then there should be a reason why that move is best.

The guy's a pimp.

da, not a bed ikea. 

We are very good all around players with a true expert in the Ponziani.  His knowledge of the opening often goes well into the middle game.  We rarely see an endgame as we usually win sooner.

Withe regards to the second puzzle, Qb3 not Qc4 was played in the game, which makes sense as it wins by force.

Pen2 usually we are winning before we get to the middlegame.  If we have a middlegame position where we are winning -- it is easy.

If we have a middlegame position we are not winning then we analyze each move extensively just as we do in the opening.

Where ever we are in a chess game we often have several pages of candidate moves and analysis until we come to a consensus.

Nobody votes early--we do not vote until the discussion is over.

Jempty you are way out of line again. As I said these positions are from ponziani games-- vote chess.  I do not have to publish each whole

game just to satisfy you that I am not lying.

I have very good reasons NOT to publish the whole games.

I thought our games available for anyone to see once the games are over.  If the question is are these games we actually played, the answer is yes.  The most recent post by Ponz saw the much stronger Qb3, not Qc4.  But the starting position is definitely from our game.  Our opponents sometimes resign.  For example, the smothered mate did not happen due to our opponents resigning.

Jempty, you are out of line again, I never said the Ponziani is a forced win, actually the Ponziani or the Ruy Lopez and any sound opening is a draw.

Chess is a draw.  However for practical play and if you know the theory, then the Ponziani can get fairly good results.

And your insisting that I publish each whole game to satisfy you is stupid. 

I do not wish to publish each whole game as our opponents do us a favor by allowing us to play our favorite opening so why should we go out of our way to publish the game when we win?

Jempty if you really want to know the earlier moves for the puzzles just do retrograde analysis....

Jempty,  your many post on this matter is also bumping this thread without discussing opening theory.  It seems you are even more guilty of what you allege.  Ponz's post, while not providing opening theory is at least chess material.  You are just arguing (as am I right now).

what i find to be stupid, is constantly hounding someone for posting puzzles from a ponziani vote chess game in the thread on the ponziani opening, claiming the offense of not posting in the correct sub-forum and post bumping, all while bumping the thread you so object to being needlessly bumped.

I am sure he appreciates you bumping his thread.  You seem to suffer from "I need the last word" syndrome.  Post a game and lets talk about it.  Team games may be inappropriate, in that there is no owner of the game.  I'll find one if I played ok and post it here for you Jempty.  You can do the same.

Look like we need the Kindergarten cop here to sort out this mess !

and what will you do with your little secret?  You could always try it out on me.  I'll be your Huckleberry.