Stockfish and Statistical Evaluation of the Indian Game

darkunorthodox88 wrote:
SmyslovFan wrote: isn't the only one to consider 1.d4 Nc6 an inaccuracy. Black is struggling to stay in the game after 2.d5. After 1.e4 Nc6, the main move is 2.d4, and White is very happy. In other words, from a purely objective perspective, 1.d4 Nc6 is an inaccuracy. Black struggles for equality, and there's a real question whether it's even attainable. 


I agree with @darkunorthodox88 that most practitioners of 1.d4 Nc6 don't know much theory. Valeri Bronznick recommends 2.d5!?, but points out that 2.e4 is also good for White. 

So, White has at least two excellent responses to 1...Nc6?!

2.e4!? is almost an error if anything. there is a reason after 1.e4 nc6, the main move for white in databases has been 2.nf3 not 2.d4. after 2... d5, black is actually in very good shape. most modern analysis puts the lines for black as quite acceptable.


as for struggling to stay in the game. well, i will tell you this. the position black gets can sometimes be very non-intuitive to play, and require A LOT of study to play well. I have studied some lines of 1.d4 nc6 2.d5 almost 20 moves deep leading to equality. the amount of people that would know these in the world is actually minuscule.  the positions are sometimes, so unlike any other opening, that your familiarity can quickly punish opponents. your best bet to get started is to follow the games of IM Blasenko GM Stevic and MAYBE IM Mestrovic in databases. you have to accept too that if white does his homework you need to be willing to play an eval of +0.4ish which puts it in the above the dubious defenses (ahem 1.d4 b5 stuff) but below the evals of the most popular black defenses. then again, anyone willing to play this off the beaten path shoudnt even wrinkle his nose at anything below 0.5 eval


and even if all that isnt convincing you , black can just play the montevideo retreat. 

white can choose his system but surprisingly black is fine regardless of white's method. d4-d5 in this pircish/KIDish position is as much a gift as a curse, and black can play for many plans with his pawn thrusts. the engine understimates black's position at first as engine often do in lower depths overvaluing space.

4. Nc3 is stupid.

White has tremendous position after 4. f4 and then 5. c4.

At least +50cps, but maybe still not winning, don't know, never went deep enough, simply does not make sense.

The knight retreat on b8 is correct and best, though.


OK, I can not read the whole thread.

I see my name mentioned here and there, but don't know what they are mentioning it about.

Concerning the main topic, SF will have difficulties with the KID for the next 50 years or so.

Openings that don't release the tension soon rely on depth and evaluation, and here engines are weak.