Forums

The Fried Liver is equal

Sort:
sloughterchess
nilshero wrote:

@ sloughterchess

Heisman Variation: Yes, the exchange sac gives full compensation. I suggest 9.Nxf7! Kxf7 10.cxd4 instead of 9.Qh5. This wins no material (in fact white is down a pawn) but white is better coordinated and blacks king is a problem. That is +=. But interesting that white has not a clearer way to advantage, guess that is because 4.Ng5 is not a developing move.

Fried Liver (9.Bb3 variation): Yes, 10...Na6 is a good improvement. But 12...Be7 is bad because of 13.c4! +/-. Better is 12...Kd6! to get a safe place on b8. I could not find a win here. Maybe += but not more. So at least 9.Bb3 is playable for black - the Fried Liver lives ;-)

I like the Knight sac in the Lolli---it is either that or accept a very difficult position to have any real winning chances even a piece up. The Knight sac is clearly thematic---I'll try a game with it against Deep Fritz 14. You're right about c4---I forgot I covered this and agreed with your assessment.

Clearly what is critical to the Fried Liver is the idea of Qd1 instead of Qe2. I had a winning attack here but botched the coup de grace.



2mooroo

The Lolli Attack is the critical variation.

Conquistador

I don't understand why black would accept a dubious venture (5...Nxd5) over a perfectly valid variation (5...Na5).

As to the circumstances over being kicked out of chesspub, you have to go quite a ways to upset the board.  But Sloughter had a problem with spamming long engine analysis with a very outdated engine for pages and pages while ignoring established theory and critical games some years ago (which I suppose led to his stay here).

I will give him some credit nowadays for having much more robust analysis, but please take a sizable amount of salt with his opinions.  He is a B class player just like me.

For the members who have not bothered to check his history over the past few years, you are being intentionally ignorant and therefore have no justification for saying any of our opinions our invalid or that we need to go.  There is a dubious past that exists and as such all posts must be looked at with a more critical light.

sloughterchess
[COMMENT DELETED]
sloughterchess
nilshero wrote:

@ sloughterchess

Heisman Variation: Yes, the exchange sac gives full compensation. I suggest 9.Nxf7! Kxf7 10.cxd4 instead of 9.Qh5. This wins no material (in fact white is down a pawn) but white is better coordinated and blacks king is a problem. That is +=. But interesting that white has not a clearer way to advantage, guess that is because 4.Ng5 is not a developing move.

Fried Liver (9.Bb3 variation): Yes, 10...Na6 is a good improvement. But 12...Be7 is bad because of 13.c4! +/-. Better is 12...Kd6! to get a safe place on b8. I could not find a win here. Maybe += but not more. So at least 9.Bb3 is playable for black - the Fried Liver lives ;-)

Deep Fritz 14 really likes the Knight sac in the Lolli:

 



ghostofmaroczy
sloughterchess wrote:I had a winning attack here but botched the coup de grace.
 



Yeah, without endgame ability all your openings are pointless, sloughterchess.

ThrillerFan

Anybody in their right mind playing Black wouldn't allow this trash!  1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Na5! is so much better!

ghostofmaroczy

nilshero, You are doing a terrible disservice to sloughterchess by engaging him in discussions about opening finesses where he continuously admits to a deficit in endgame ability.

2mooroo

Am I the only one who likes 5..b5   ?
5..Na5 is obviously very strong but you have to be prepared to deal with the complications of having a goofy knight and sacrificing a pawn.  5..b5 is the same idea but slightly more straightforward.  If white knows the mainline, 6.Bf1, the game will progress similarly, but when I've tried it white has always just grabbed the pawn and black has an easy and simple game

sloughterchess
2mooroo wrote:

Am I the only one who likes 5..b5   ?
5..Na5 is obviously very strong but you have to be prepared to deal with the complications of having a goofy knight and sacrificing a pawn.  5..b5 is the same idea but slightly more straightforward.  If white knows the mainline, 6.Bf1, the game will progress similarly, but when I've tried it white has always just grabbed the pawn and black has an easy and simple game

Deep Fritz 14 always transposes to the Berliner Gambit which is winning for White:



sloughterchess
ghostofmaroczy wrote:
sloughterchess wrote:I had a winning attack here but botched the coup de grace.
 



Yeah, without endgame ability all your openings are pointless, sloughterchess.

This thread is on opening theory not endgame technique; if you want a primer on endgame technique there are many other threads to accomodate your suggestion.

ghostofmaroczy
sloughterchess wrote:
ghostofmaroczy wrote:
sloughterchess wrote:I had a winning attack here but botched the coup de grace.
 



Yeah, without endgame ability all your openings are pointless, sloughterchess.

This thread is on opening theory not endgame technique; if you want a primer on endgame technique there are many other threads to accomodate your suggestion.

This thread is on chess.  Kindly remove your jackboot from my neck.

MonkeyH

The title is called Fried liver. Didn't know that was an endgame technique ;)

sloughterchess
[COMMENT DELETED]
ghostofmaroczy
MonkeyH wrote:

The title is called Fried liver. Didn't know that was an endgame technique ;)

The title?  Try the author.

ghostofmaroczy
sloughterchess wrote:good endgame technique

Do you have good endgame technique?

2mooroo

"Deep Fritz 14 always transposes to the Berliner Gambit which is winning for White"

I'll keep that in mind if I ever decide to play engines.

sloughterchess
2mooroo wrote:

"Deep Fritz 14 always transposes to the Berliner Gambit which is winning for White"

 

I'll keep that in mind if I ever decide to play engines.

The only thing you have to remember in the Ulvestad is that after 5.exd5 b5 6.Bf1 Nd4 7.c3 Nxd5 8.Ne4 (Nh3 Bxh3 9.cxd4 Bd7 10.dxe5 +/=) is always play 8...Ne6 = and Black's opening has been a success (You have equalized and have to outplay your opponent from an equal position). If White avoids d4, Black's goal is to get in f5 & if possible plant a Knight on d3.

White can try to complicate with 9.Bxb5+ Bd7 10.Bc4, but Nb6 is equal. If 10.Bxd7+ Qxd7 White has to play an early d4. If White ever captures on d4 then often Rad8/c5 is good for equality.

ghostofmaroczy

IM pfren, Do we have any Hope of waking him up?

Jion_Wansu

Is this worse than my opening I invented?