The Ruy Lopez position

ponz111 wrote:

One of the real reasons White plays 3. Bb5 is that it restricts [to some extent] Black's moves.  

Also, White should play 3. Bb5 in the Ruy because if he doesn't it would no longer be called "The Ruy Lopez"

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Chess is siege warfare in the form of a board game. It is about 3 strategies (restrain, blockade, execute--the enemy). At the same time it is about control of the center (d4,e4,d5,e5).  Also the general opening principles state that Ns should be developed before Bs.  So 3.Bb5 is some type of exception to this principle.

3.Bb5 temporarily restrains the advance of Black's b pawn at b7, and especially Black's d pawn at d7. The reason that the restraining of the d pawn is especially important is because

this pawn is critical to Black in controlling the center. If Black advances the d pawn then White can play 4.Bxc6 and give Black an exploitable loose doubled pawn complex after 4 ...bxc6. As opposed to a compact doubled pawn complex after 4 ...dxc6 which is practically impossible to exploit.

One of the best moves to counter 3.Bb5 is 3...Nf6 (the first move that indicates to White that Black is going to play the Berlin Defense.

If you would like to know more please let me know.

Why does white play bishop b5?

Might want to read Andrew Greets book on the lopez position. He covers the area quite well.

Oh.

I think there is some good moves after that.

Indeed!

Bb5 also prevents the freeing move d5, which Black does want to play, like white does in the scotch.

d5 is also the basis of the Marshall Gambit previously mentioned.

I think the pawn threatining the bishop should be moved next

poony wrote:

I think the pawn threatining the bishop should be moved next

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Why do you think the next move for Black should be 3...a6? Can you give some reasons?

The potential pin on the c6-knight puts pressure on Black's e5, Black plays ...a6 so he can instantly break the pin at the right moment.

Black is cleverly trying to force White move his bishop to a better diagonal?

blake78613 wrote:

transpo wrote:

poony wrote:

I think the pawn threatining the bishop should be moved next

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Why do you think the next move for Black should be 3...a6? Can you give some reasons?

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Blake78613 wrote:

The potential pin on the c6-knight puts pressure on Black's e5, Black plays ...a6 so he can instantly break the pin at the right moment.

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That is one way to look at it. And one good way to look at the position. But, there are lots of other good ways to look at the position.

Let's say that we know that after 3...a6 The next few moves will be 4.Bxc6 dxc6 5.Nxe5 Qd4. What do you think of the position now?, and what do you think White will do next?

I say bishop takes knight to have black in the better position.Actualy,white has partly nothing out and black has a knight.

poony wrote:

I say bishop takes knight to have black in the better position.Actualy,white has partly nothing out and black has a knight.

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Do you know algebraic chess notation of chess moves? The reason I ask, is because the position I wrote in my last post the last move was Black's (5...Qd4). In that position White has a N at e5 and a pawn at e4. Black has a Q at d4. Maybe you could post a diagram with the position if you know how.

Yes I see.

If 4 Bxc6 could be shown to lead to some kind of advantage for White, then Black shouldn't waste a tempo with 3...a6; but White doesn't get much for the exchange and it is one of the most drawish variations around.  White has a won pawn endgame if he can get to it, but Black has the bishop pair and little to fear from the exchange variation.

blake78613 wrote:

transpo wrote:

blake78613 wrote:

transpo wrote:

poony wrote:

I think the pawn threatining the bishop should be moved next

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Why do you think the next move for Black should be 3...a6? Can you give some reasons?

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Blake78613 wrote:

The potential pin on the c6-knight puts pressure on Black's e5, Black plays ...a6 so he can instantly break the pin at the right moment.

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That is one way to look at it. And one good way to look at the position. But, there are lots of other good ways to look at the position.

Let's say that we know that after 3...a6 The next few moves will be 4.Bxc6 dxc6 5.Nxe5 Qd4. What do you think of the position now?, and what do you think White will do next?

If 4 Bxc6 could be shown to lead to some kind of advantage for White, then Black shouldn't waste a tempo with 3...a6; but White doesn't get much for the exchange and it is one of the most drawish variations around.  White has a won pawn endgame if he can get to it, but Black has the bishop pair and little to fear from the exchange variation.

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If 4 Bxc6 could be shown to lead to some kind of advantage for White, then Black shouldn't waste a tempo with 3...a6

My point, exactly. So 3...Nf6 is more in keeping with general opening principles like development and control the center.

Also, playing the Ruy Lopez is one way to avoid the dreaded Ponziani!

why bother with the ruy? just because to top gms play it doesn't mean you have to memorize 500000 lines yourself. the giucco piano is equally respectable...

Conehead, how can the point be to save a tempo later? The point is to beat the shxx out of the opposition. Death, destruction, war.. Oops the alarm. Was i dreaming?