Winawer 4 ...c5

  • #1

    My opening knowledge is bad but I'm a decent player I guess (1575 on RedHotPawn) and I'm curious to know what you think about the following opening variation that I decided on my own during a game. Since the game is still in progress and I wouldn't like to cheat by asking tips from anybody, I only give the first few moves. It has developed into a really interesting game, where I swopped a knight for three pawns and has reached a complicated position where I have a lot more space. In another blitz game, I also played this variation and won, but what was interesting is that that game developed completely different, with long pawn chains constricting piece movement, which made the game slow.

    Anyway, what do you think? Is it sound? Is it actually being played? (As I mentioned, my knowledge of openings is not that good.)

  • #2

    Starts as the french defense as far as im concerned, but the cramping of the pawns isnt advisable. Perfectly sound apart from the fact that black loses a vital pawn.

  • #3

    No pawns lost here. I guess white still has good attacking changes, but the structure of his queen side pawns are screwed up. Black has good chances along the open c file. The next couple of moves were very interesting (I've played further than that (move 34) so there's no chance of cheating...). I think white screwed up a bit and allowed black to start an attack on the queen side, gaining more space in the process. But so far I don't think the advantage is conclusive.

  • #4

    BTW I was playing as black, sorry for the misunderstanding at the beginning. I new here. :P

  • #5

    This line actually looks pretty interesting.  White pretty much has to give up a pawn after Qc7, not Ne7.  But White may have compensation.  You never know.

  • #6

    7. Qg4 looks a lot better than 7. bxc3.  If black ever takes the b pawn, white will retake with his bishop and have nice piece placement that is worth a pawn. (open file for the rook; bishop on long diagonal; the queen on g4 with pawn on e5 plus lack of dark squared bishop kingside hard to defend)

  • #7

    Hey KillaBeez

    I guess so, Qc7 instead of Ne7 might have been even more effective. Interestingly, White still failed to keep his e pawn. I'm beginning to wonder if White should play something other than a3. In any case, this is by no means a win for Black of course. But I think Black's position is at least solid. Anyway, I'll post the full game once it's over. Thanks for the comments.

  • #8

    This variation seems so much better than ...Bxc3 check!

  • #9
    GotGoose wrote:

    7. Qg4 looks a lot better than 7. bxc3.  If black ever takes the b pawn, white will retake with his bishop and have nice piece placement that is worth a pawn. (open file for the rook; bishop on long diagonal; the queen on g4 with pawn on e5 plus lack of dark squared bishop kingside hard to defend)


    Interesting point. Guess it's true. Black will probably go Ne7 and sac the g pawn for an open file for his rook (Rg8), if White accepts the pawn. With White able to keep the e pawn and good piece activity, Black's King stuck in the centre it certainly looks better for White. Thanks. This should make an interesting game.

  • #10

    well there had to be some reason why it's used so little in master play.

  • #11

    Here's an interesting line from this variation.

     

  • #12

    In this line of the winawer 7 bxc3 isnt so good even though it scores better than 50%, both  7 Qg4 and  7 Nf3 score over 70% for white !  This would explain why we dont see this line at the higher levels, no ?  Wink

  • #13

    nice find bondiggity

  • #14

    Um... Reb?  Out of how many games?

  • #15
    KillaBeez wrote:

    Um... Reb?  Out of how many games?


     7 Qg4 107 games

    7 Nf3  71 games

    7 bxc3 87 games

  • #16

    Wow.  I had no idea there were so many games with this.  Also, instead of axb4, then White can play the simple Qxd4 e.g. Nc6 Bb5 with a level game.

  • #17

    why would white want a level game when axb4 clearly gives white advantage?

  • #18

    Does it really clearly give White an advantage?  It has yet to be proven.  In a tournament, I would probably play Qxd4 because axb4 leads to the kind of positions that I am uncomfortable with.

  • #19
    Reb wrote:

    I both  7 Qg4 and  7 Nf3 score over 70% for white !  


    I think 70% win is a clear refutation

  • #20
    bondiggity wrote:

    Here's an interesting line from this variation.

     

     


    I don't think that many players familiar with the French would castle into the "Greek Gift".

    But a decent gambit overall.

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