Josh Waitzkin vs. Bobby Fishcer both at age 20. Who wins?

  • #161
    FirebrandX wrote:
    SmyslovFan wrote:
    FirebrandX wrote:
    SmyslovFan wrote:

    There isn't another American who ever came close to Fischer. Sorry all you Morphy fans, but even though Morphy was well ahead of his time, he just is no match for today's grandmasters who are equiped with amazing technique and defensive skills. Fischer would have demolished Morphy.

    That's a bit unfair. Try imagining a modernized Morphy. I suspect he would be just as strong as Fischer was.

    A modernized Morphy would not be Morphy, he'd be someone else.

    Then your comparison is moot to begin with. Of course GMs of today are generally stronger due to the body of theory built up by prior generations. For you to not allow a comparison on equal theory setting is frankly a bullshit tactic.

    Funny. 

    The original post was a suggestion that Josh Waitzkin, with the advantage of his extra knowledge, might have a chance against Fischer. He wouldn't. 

    But because Morphy would have no chance against Fischer, it's "bullshit"? 

    Brilliant. 

  • #162

    just a line to alec 841 bobby never mowed down everyone Tal had many amazing fights v Fischer prompting bobbys quote "finally he has not escaped me "when he eventually beat him on original question i would mortgage my house on Sir Bobby Fischer the wests best grandmaster ever in his many quotes he was true to "Chess is life"

  • #163
    SmyslovFan wrote:
    FirebrandX wrote:
    SmyslovFan wrote:
    FirebrandX wrote:
    SmyslovFan wrote:

    There isn't another American who ever came close to Fischer. Sorry all you Morphy fans, but even though Morphy was well ahead of his time, he just is no match for today's grandmasters who are equiped with amazing technique and defensive skills. Fischer would have demolished Morphy.

    That's a bit unfair. Try imagining a modernized Morphy. I suspect he would be just as strong as Fischer was.

    A modernized Morphy would not be Morphy, he'd be someone else.

    Then your comparison is moot to begin with. Of course GMs of today are generally stronger due to the body of theory built up by prior generations. For you to not allow a comparison on equal theory setting is frankly a bullshit tactic.

    Funny. 

    The original post was a suggestion that Josh Waitzkin, with the advantage of his extra knowledge, might have a chance against Fischer. He wouldn't. 

    But because Morphy would have no chance against Fischer, it's "bullshit"? 

    Brilliant. 

    What's brilliant is you deciding what can and can't be compared in a completely hypothetical and impossible scenario. But hey, lets see if we can reach past your ego and have you noodle this one using your own rules:

    Morphy would not lose to Fischer because they are both dead.

    That's using the exact same rules as your "Morphy would not be Morphy" argument. Get it now, smart guy? If not, I'll try again:

    Whether you imagine both players being alive at the same time, or imagine Morphy having the benefit of Fischer-ere theory to study, the end result is two scenarios that cannot happen. So that's exactly why your shaping the rules of imagination to only work in your argument's favor is a bullshit tactic.

  • #164

    John, the hypothetical was the historical Fischer at age 20 vs Waitzkin when he was 20. 

    We can indeed compare the two because they both played chess when they were 20 and we can see the quality of their games.

    We cannot see what the quality of Morphy's games would have been if he had been transported to some future date and given the same information Fischer had.

  • #165

    One "fair" way to evaluate them is to ask which was more dominant in his time. I think the answer is obvious (hint: it ain't Josh). 

    Comparing them  by saying Fischer didn't have access to today's computer's etc makes no sense; EVERYBODY today has access to this stuff. 

    Who had the most innate chess ability? it ain't Josh. 

  • #166

    7,000 views and only 200 some comments. Sheesh. Almost all of them say the same thing too. Weird.

  • #167

    It is like talking about the death of Diana. Was she killed, or was it an accident ? Everybody has an opinion. A thread that has no value.

  • #168
    schlechter55 wrote:

    It is like talking about the death of Diana. Was she killed, or was it an accident ? Everybody has an opinion. A thread that has no value.

    Opinion based on the fact that todays IMs aren't better than GMs of the 70s. Should be obvious.

  • #169
    Fischer would almost certainly win even if he was blindfolded with time odds. The comparison is terrible. Fischer was a true genius and one of the greatest players of all time. Waitzkin was not a GM.
  • #170

    Why are you bumping a 2 year old thread?  A ridiculous thread, at that.

  • #171

    Bobby. No doubt

  • #172

    Who would win in a match between a dead guy and a retired chessplayer?

  • #173

    Bobby.

  • #174

    Fischer.

  • #175

    http://www.uschess.org/component/option,com_wrapper/Itemid,181/

    Type in Waitzkin and see his record.    He held the Life Senior Master Title, the highest title accorded in the USA.

    Though Fischer was levels above Waitzkin.   No contest, Fischer wins a match.

  • #176
    pfren escribió:

    Icelandic culture is something most people on earth will simply not understand. Most males there are very highly educated, yet they are fishermen, and away of home for the best part of the year (codfish fishing) so the women rule the country. Some 60% of them breed children, without ever been married.

    Some ten years ago, there was a plan for a "highway" connecting the capital, Reykjavik, with the second largest city, Akureyri, a few hundred miles to the North. The plan was submitted to the parliament, and briefly dismissed. Can you guess why?

    Because the highway had to pass through a valley, where it would potentially annoy the trolls, and other spirits...

    No, we aren't talking about Africa, but rather the most civilized place in the universe.

    I'd move there right now if I had the chance, and I'm totally serious. The only thing I'd miss would be the food, but whatever...

  • #177

    When Bobby went to live in iceland one of the things he said he liked about the place was the food.

  • #178

    He wasn't raised in Spain though.

  • #179
    Bobby-J-Fischer wrote:

    When Bobby went to live in iceland one of the things he said he liked about the place was the food.

    Some friends from the Greek National Team that were there recently for the EU Team Championship said the food at the hotel was somewhere close to disgusting...

  • #180

    Dont eat at that Hotel ,noted.

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