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mAGNUS CARLSEN VS houdini 2 PRO

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Surviving2012

Some people here try to explain to another that using a machine to correct your weakness in positional aspects could look a bit crazy, exactly similar to the people only playing the 1 minute games as a drug and getting actually a final rank of 1275-1350, like me, except that I play also slow games and don't use a computer to help me to believe I'm a reincarnation of Fischer. But, you know, arrogance can easily take the place of intelligence or philosophy, no big deal. Sometimes, we just don't get it. due to Ego.

atarw
kamalakanta wrote:

Thief 1,

Definitely machines are better than humans at calculating. No doubt. Chess has a mathematical side.

However, I am more interested in the human side, the struggle between two wills, and also in the aesthetic or artistic side of chess. The appreciation of beauty, the feelings of a human soul, the computer has no way of replicating.

Computers have an unfair advantage in that they can consult their own internal database; it is in this respect that the fight is unfair. They also do not have a complex spiritual/emotional/mental/physical system, like humans do. Therefore chessgames between humans and machines are unfair, and of no interest to me.

It is beautiful they play chess.

If they have the WORST pawn structure in the world, they will still evaluate it because they know there could be something hidden there, where a human would reject the idea due to asthetics.

And I don't like playing against computers, they are very good and I don't like to lose. Although if I lose, I'll probably learn why I lost. Against a computer, its because I overlooked some tactic, or hung a piece.

And in the games I don't lose pieces, I don't understand why I lost. In a natural position, I make one normal move and lose. After I go over the game with a computer, it evaluates the position as losing, but I don't know why, and the position doesn't have to be tactical for this to happen!

jankku
[COMMENT DELETED]
CalamityChristie
FEDTEL wrote:
CalamityChristie wrote:

not a chessplayer in my book

some people agree with you, call it "a thing that makes moves in a chess game" if you want.

they dont even know they're playing chess

Clavius

Just wrote a blog about an incredible game between Rybka and Houdini that illustrates just how good engines have become.  It is here:  http://blog.chess.com/Clavius/most-impressive-computer-game-ever

WeisseSchachlade

Chess is about using your own brain, not about using a computer... where's the fun and benefit in that?

MSC157

I always loved "the match" pfren vs. computerlovers :)

go pfren! :D

varelse1
Vease wrote:

He isn't even guaranteed to beat strong grandmasters every time, in fact his recent tournament results aren't all that great so he has no chance against Houdini running on multiple cores. Its actually irrelevant because Houdini 'cheats' by having perfect access to the most up to date opening theory and endgame tablebases while playing, most of us could play better if we were looking things up as we went along.

if you think the opening book isn't a big deal try playing against an engine with the opening book turned off, they play 500 ELO worse.

Carlsen musta seen what you wrote there, Vease. Sinse you posted it 7 months ago, he has only lost 1 game that I know of. Way to motivate a guy!

Elubas

"Carlsen has said in an interview that he does not play computers, because it is like playing an idiot who can beat you every time!"

An interesting quote... certainly one way to look at it... Wink

Noreaster

Watching a computer play chess is akin to watching paint dry.........I also have a disdain for anyoe that supports this kind of chess......offended.....oh well leran to live with it........just as I have learned to live with you

Mandy711

How would Houdini fare in a game vs 3 to 5 super GMs in cooperation? If more cores = better performance, would more super GM brains = human win?

scottsdetailcity

One's Rogue'n the others Vogue'n

SmyslovFan

GMBABY, 

Возможно, если бы вы говорили на русском языке, мы поняли бы лучше?

mvtjc

I think it is really unfair if humans play against computers, computers virtually don't have "touch-move-place" rule, also like others said, a game of computers are boring, they don't have creativeness because the only reason why computers beat humans is because of chess's mathematical side. And like the Math subject, playing chess using ONLY mathematical things(xD) is boring. I'm a Bachelor of Science Major in Mathematics student though. Laughing

Rasparovov
FEDTEL wrote:
1MIN-Guardian wrote:

Carlsen would destroy Houdini if you give him 20 hours versus Houdini having 30 minutes.

Don't think so, Even if you gave houdini 1 min/game it will win more games than him.

I don't think that's correct. My Houdini always takes a minute or two to settle for a move. 

Rasparovov
FEDTEL wrote:
Rasparovov wrote:
FEDTEL wrote:
1MIN-Guardian wrote:

Carlsen would destroy Houdini if you give him 20 hours versus Houdini having 30 minutes.

Don't think so, Even if you gave houdini 1 min/game it will win more games than him.

I don't think that's correct. My Houdini always takes a minute or two to settle for a move. 

ofc, I know that the more time you give, the stronger Houdini will be, but do you know the ELO points decrease if you give houdini 1 min\game instead of 30 mins\game? I think it will be no more than 400 ELO.

the Idea is that the engine's strength (or number of moves searched) increases LOGARITHMLY with time (e.g. let Houdini evaluate a position for 1 sec, then for 60 secs, you will see the difference in depth reached is relatively very small between the two cases despite the second time is 60 times longer than the first).

now, can you Imagine the amount of decrease in strength for a Human playing at 30 mins\game compared to the same Human playing at 1min\game!

yes a computer will play a 1 against 1 minute game better but now it's 20 hours versus 1 minute. 

Tartarus_BW

Maybe he can win with chess 960?

Rasparovov
FEDTEL wrote:
Rasparovov wrote:

yes a computer will play a 1 against 1 minute game better but now it's 20 hours versus 1 minute. 

maybe, but 20 hours is too much (I meant 30 mins for Carlsen), even with 20 hours Magnus Carlsen can win some games ofc but not "destroy" houdini playing 1mins\game as mentioned above, let alone 30 mins for Houdini.

I'm pretty sure Carlsen would destroy Houdini 2 with 20 hours against 1 minute.

KeyserSzoze

end of this thread?

 

"The food arrives, and dishes crowd the little table. How does he feel about chess computers, I ask as we fill up our plates. “I can’t beat the best computers. They have complete information, so how could we expect anything else? I don’t look at computers as opponents. For me it is much more interesting to beat humans. Again, not a trace of angst.December 7, 2012

 

rest of the story here

mvtjc
Tartarus_BW wrote:

Maybe he can win with chess 960?

AGREE! Same case that until now noone has ever created an AI for Arimaa that can beat top players.Smile