A very hard nut to crack

  • #1

    Here is an extremely difficult endgame study, made by the Yugoslav composer Dragutin Djaja. White to play and draw. The solution is amazing- even computers take a very long time to discover white's idea.

     

  • #2

    0mg, I'm stuck after 3...Ra4, xD Wow :]

  • #3

    wtf, how is that stalemate

  • #4

    :]

  • #5

    why doesn't white just play Nxd4 followed by Nc2 to stop the pawn? Seems like that would be a winning position although I haven't analyzed it thoroughly

  • #6

    2.Nxd4 a2 3.Nc2 loses at once to 3...Rb2.

  • #7

    Wow, pretty sweet how the Knight guards the f5 square which indirectly keeps the g5 square safe.  Now I see why the K returns to h2 after kicking the Rh4+ w/ Kg3. 

  • #8

    Wow. Crazy stuff.

  • #9

    how is it draw... please somebody tell me....

  • #10

    Black can play better in that last variation: 8...Kc7, when the a7 pawn is lost. However, white can draw with either 9.Rg6 or the surprising 9.Rb1 (all other rook moves lose). That said, it's extremely difficult to handle the white position without aid (online tablebases, that is). Mind you that when the study was composed, there were no computers, and no online tablebases.

    You can check the position at the usual place:

    http://www.k4it.de/index.php?topic=egtb&lang=en

     

    The solution given by the composer is a clear draw, as well as an "easy" one- provided of course that someone finds 4.Rg8!! and 5.Nh6!!, which pop up at the Houdini moves list after just a couple of hours thought... Laughing

  • #11

    The solution given by the composer is a clear draw, as well as an "easy" one- provided of course that someone finds 4.Rg8!! and 5.Nh6!!, which pop up at the Houdini moves list after just a couple of hours thought... Laughing

     

    I thought that maybe you were mistaken but Houdini seems to have no idea what is going on. Even when led up to the perpetual position, the latest Hoiudini on extreme hardware doesn't grasp the concept (I didn't bother to run for hours).

     

    Thanks for showing this interesting position.

     

    p.s. Although Houdini finds choumicha's draw in less than two seconds.

  • #12

    Houdini cannot compute the other draw, unless used under an UI which is using tablebases. It just gives an evaluation based on the material balance on the board, and the casual.

    As for the engine's ability to find the composer's solution... look at these:

    http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5634

    http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5695

    Of course the time mentioned is for 5.Nh6 alone, not for solving the whole study.

  • #13

    Your post clearly shows the benefits of letting more than one engine take a look at tricky positions.

     

    Stockfish found the (a) solution fairly quickly: depth 32 in 150 seconds.

     

     

  • #14

    how is ti  draw?


    Surprised
  • #15
    Justified08 wrote:

     

    how is ti  draw?

     

     



    White threatens checking all the way from g8 to g1, and Black has nowhere to hide without allowing the a-pawn to queen.

  • #16

    a question: could white win the game?

  • #17

    Way over my head.

    I got the first two moves just by inituitively trying to stir up counterplay, but wasn't able to see the perpetual.  

  • #18

    Nice.

  • #19

    kewl..

  • #20

    wow!!!!!

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