Petroff Defense+Endgame Technique

rabbitAAAA

So, I like to play the petroff defense as a counter to e4. It takes people by surprise, it's sound, and it mostly requires endgame skill and positional play and not sharp tactics and attacks plus gambits that must be played actively. So, does anyone know what types of endgames the Petroff leads into? And some extremely drawish lines?

stiggling

So you like to play it because it requires endgame skill, suggesting that you're comfortable in petroff endgames, and have scored well in them.

Then you ask "does anyone know what types of endgames the Petroff leads into?"

lol

happy.png

IMBacon

I tried finding a game where the opening/endgame decided the outcome...I wasn't able to.  All your games were won and lost because of tactics, and blunders. 

IMBacon
stiggling wrote:

So you like to play it because it requires endgame skill, suggesting that you're comfortable in petroff endgames, and have scored well in them.

Then you ask "does anyone know what types of endgames the Petroff leads into?"

lol

 

Darn it stiggy...you beat me to it.  IM slowing down in my old age.

rabbitAAAA

They blunder too much in live chess, so I take advantage of that.....

IMBacon
rabbitAAAA wrote:

They blunder too much in live chess, so I take advantage of that.....

The word youre looking for is "we", not "they"

stiggling

I just thought it was funny tongue.png

stiggling

To answer the OP question though... I don't play the petroff, but what I'd do if I wanted to learn the endgames, is first I'd look at the pawn structure. Then you ask yourself if you understand the basic endgames in that structure like Q vs Q, R vs R, B vs B (same and opposite), N vs N...

Often endgames are more than 1 piece (like R+B vs R+N or Q+R vs Q+R) but being comfortable with the most basic endgames lets you know which piece trades are good and bad, and will give more direction to those slightly more complex endgames.

Then I'd get, I don't know, 50 to 100 GM games from chessgames.com and look at the types of endgames that are happening.

Of course before the endgame comes the middlegame, so looking at those GM games to learn the main middlegame ideas (for both players) is important too.

SmyslovFan

The Petroff (Russian Game) is vastly underrated by club players. It's an excellent opening that can lead to all sorts of interesting middle games. It has a drawish reputation because of how GMs play it. But as Caruana has shown, it can be played for a win at almost any level. 

Petroff doesn't lead by force to massive trades or to dead drawn positions, so don't worry about its reputation. Look for ways to play actively using the Petroff. Below ~2500, the better player usually wins regardless of the opening.

Focus on becoming the better player and don't worry about the reputation of the opening.

little_guinea_pig
IMBacon wrote:
rabbitAAAA wrote:

They blunder too much in live chess, so I take advantage of that.....

The word youre looking for is "we", not "they"

Don't forget the word "we", not "I"!

choochoo17
I think petroff is drawish but just for 2600++
GriffiN75

honestly it also depends on what variation of the petroff.

 

kindaspongey

Games from the Petroff section of Mastering the Endgame by Shereshevsky:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1011915

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1428245

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1276949

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1067157

rabbitAAAA

Thanks for all the replies everyone!

 

Play_e5

Playing the Petroff means that you don't want to try to get an edge from the opening

rabbitAAAA

Yeah I go for the draw with black

 

 

HolographWars

Study the endgame that arised during the Carlsen-Caruana game. 4. Nd3

Sqod
GriffiN75 wrote:

honestly it also depends on what variation of the petroff.

 

This is an extreme understatement. First, one should realize that Petrov's Defense can transpose into the Four Knights Game, Petrov Three Knights Game, Giuoco Piano, or some other opening with different characteristics than the Petrov, so as Black you don't have a lot of control over what White chooses at that early stage of the game. Second, to get even an inkling as to what typical pawn structures look like for Double King's Pawn Games (1. e4 e5), which are much more varied than Sicilians, Queen's Gambits Declined, etc., you'd have to specify a given variation out to a good 15 moves or so.

To confirm my suspicions, since I was curious myself, I looked up the three most popular variations of  the "Hawkin's Defense" (3...d6) of the "Perigal Attack" (1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5) variation of the Petrov, and followed the most popular moves out to the end of one chess database. In every case, the database ran out of games before even the middlegame, at least according to my definition of the middlegame (the point at which both sides have developed all of their pieces), so to try to make a generalization about the endgames at that point is very futile, I believe.

Below is a summary of what I found...

(1)
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nf3 {Main Line.}
https://www.365chess.com/opening.php?m=8&n=602&ms=e4.e5.Nf3.Nf6.Nxe5.d6.Nf3&ns=3.5.5.221.601.707.602
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nf3 Nxe4 5. d4 d5 6. Bd3 Nc6 7. O-O Be7 8. c4 Nb4 9. Be2 O-O 10. Nc3 Bf5 11. a3 Nxc3 12. bxc3 Nc6 13. Re1 Re8 14. cxd5 Qxd5 15. Bf4 Rac8 16. h3 h6 17. Nd2 Na5 18. Bf3 Qd7 19. Ne4 Rcd8 20. Ra2 b6 21. Rae2 Bxa3 22. Bg4
https://www.365chess.com/opening.php?m=44&n=6174350&ms=e4.e5.Nf3.Nf6.Nxe5.d6.Nf3.Nxe4.d4.d5.Bd3.Nc6.O-O.Be7.c4.Nb4.Be2.O-O.Nc3.Bf5.a3.Nxc3.bxc3.Nc6.Re1.Re8.cxd5.Qxd5.Bf4.Rac8.h3.h6.Nd2.Na5.Bf3.Qd7.Ne4.Rcd8.Ra2.b6.Rae2.Bxa3.Bg4&ns=3.5.5.221.601.707.602.708.953.1006.954.2300.5090.1115.5091.5298.5721.5888.5785.5889.6016.6030.6017.6031.9302.9278.9303.6031.5988.14709.37992.3094572.3114258.5102266.5164516.5174625.5149257.5124625.6315715.6287348.6174349.6120011.6174350
move 22
White is not completely developed yet.


(2)
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nc4 {Petrov's Defense Paulsen Attack.}
https://www.365chess.com/opening.php?m=8&n=2261&ms=e4.e5.Nf3.Nf6.Nxe5.d6.Nc4&ns=3.5.5.221.601.707.2261
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nc4 Nxe4 5. Nc3 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Be7 7. d4 O-O 8. Bd3 Re8 9. O-O Nd7 10. Ne3 Nf6
https://www.365chess.com/opening.php?m=21&n=1834017&ms=e4.e5.Nf3.Nf6.Nxe5.d6.Nc4.Nxe4.Nc3.Nxc3.bxc3.Be7.d4.O-O.Bd3.Re8.O-O.Nd7.Ne3.Nf6&ns=3.5.5.221.601.707.2261.2975.7387.8557.7388.43487.67783.86630.77241.329316.463237.502889.1649433.1834017
move 10
White is not completely developed yet.
Black is not completely developed yet.


(3)
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nxf7 {Cochrane Gambit.}
https://www.365chess.com/opening.php?m=8&n=1124&ms=e4.e5.Nf3.Nf6.Nxe5.d6.Nxf7&ns=3.5.5.221.601.707.1124
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nxf7 Kxf7 5. d4 c5 6. dxc5 Nc6 7. Bc4 Be6 8. Bxe6 Kxe6 9. O-O Kf7
move 9
https://www.365chess.com/opening.php?m=19&n=2425268&ms=e4.e5.Nf3.Nf6.Nxe5.d6.Nxf7.Kxf7.d4.c5.dxc5.Nc6.Bc4.Be6.Bxe6.Kxe6.O-O.Kf7&ns=3.5.5.221.601.707.1124.102307.375268.525254.375503.525255.1125750.1371907.1125751.1371908.2166058.2425268
White is not completely developed yet.
Black is not completely developed yet.

The pawn structures are very different, as you can see.

If you went about 17 moves into the Cozio Attack, though, you could probably get a good feel for the resulting endgame pawn structure for that one variation. That might be a good exercise since it's supposedly an extremely drawish variation, so if you find yourself constantly losing while practicing with Computer Level 7 or 8 while set up with that position, you'd know you'd need to learn something more than typical endgame pawn structures. And dare I mention that if you don't know what the Cozio Attack is, then you should be learning that before you learn its endgame pawn structures?

100% draws in all subsequent variations: