IncrediBill vs zrylam (with kibitzers)

Why did you skip the b file? I feel that is where the a rook should have went eventually, to attack the pawn.

Wait, what are you talking about? I'm pretty sure you misunderstood/misread my post

Sorry, it was late at night...as it always was whenever I look here to make comments. Now it';s just afternoon, so let me look...

Ok, I fully apologize for being against your argument. I understand now what you were saying, and I wholeheartedly agree with it. It's not a bad plan at all. However, I'm using the analysis board now, since I havent used it yet for my last comment, but since the move has been made, I'm analysing the possible (NOT by any means all, and I might have missed some moves) continuations.

Oh for crying out loud, I spent quite a bit on that blimin' analysis inmy last post... =( Ah well. It was interesting. But now f5...

If Black was looking for expanding kingside, then I don't see how he's going to erect a formidable pawn chain with that doubled pawn situation. In a way, that doubled pawns is an asset - if Black wants to expand, he may have to disregard king safety, since the Bg7 is blocking the g file...it looks like White's kingside pawns are fine for the moment. However, that's long term, and if White wants to attack, then I'd rather look at White's possible forcing moves. A possibility is 25.f4.

OH dammit. Here's the PGN, starting position is the position after 24...f5. Can someone -please try to post it? Thank you very much.

[Date "????.??.??"]
[Result "*"]
[FEN "1r1q3k/3r2bp/3P2p1/1pB1pp2/1p6/5P2/P2Q1P1P/3R1RK1 w - - 0 1"]

1.f4 e4 { The worst thing Black can do it let White solidify the position with fxe5... } ( 1...exf4 2.Qxf4 { White's better off. } ) ( 1...Qf8 { May be an alternative } 2.Rfe1 ( 2.fxe5 Bxe5 3.Rfe1 Bg7 ( 3...Bxd6 { Should be obvious that this is wrong, but I wanna go over something =) } 4.Qd4+ Qg7 5.Bxd6 Qxd4 6.Rxd4 ) 4.Re7 Rbd8 ( 4...Rxe7?? 5.dxe7 Qe8 ( 5...Qf7 6.Qd8+!! Rxd8 7.Rxd8+!! { When up in material, exchange. This move is better than exd8=Q, since it forces exchange with a rook, rather than a Queen. } 7...Qg8 8.Rxg8+ ) 6.Qd8!! ) 5.Rde1 ) 2...Re8 3.Bxb4 Re6 { Position still evenly matched... } ) 2.Bd4 { Only problem is, the Black king is now vulnerable. ...f5 weakened the dark squares...so...I don't know. I think the blue line *might* be the best one for Black, but I'm not going to analyse this much. ...Qf8 followed by Re1 or`Rd1, or ...Bxd4 are two possibilities. Since pieces, not pawns, are now used for defence of Black King, White might find Rc1-Rc7 a possibilityin the future...who knows. }
*

Not a bad call, I didn't see that one...

2...fxe5 3.Rfe1 Bc3 then at the moment, quick analysis, I can't see any good reply for White. Best situation I managed to get was a Q+R ending with 3 isolated White pawns vs 2Qpawns + 3Kpawns, all connected.

Down goes the f4 move =( Unless someone can find better.

 Hello @ScarredEyes,

Some nice lines you posted.  Thank you @Stubborn_donkey for helping him out with the analysis board.  I am sure that @zrylam is looking them over right now and getting some ideas of his own.

I anticipated @zrylam's pawn pushing on the 'f' and 'e' files, which is why I moved my a1-Rook away from the line of fire on my previous move.  Now if he plays 25.e4, I won't be caught in the situation where I am forced to move my Rook to safety.  In fact, because my Rook is already safe and sound, if he plays e4, then I can simply capture the e4-pawn with my f-pawn instead of loosing it to his 'discovered' attack.

So since I now have this 'leisure' moment, instead of pushing my f-pawn up and launching an attack, I think that I would like to continue laying a foundation for some future moves.

A problem that I see for @zrylam is that by pushing up his f-pawn, (which was protecting his e-pawn) he is now using his Bishop to protect that e-pawn.  If I play 25.Rfe1, then he will have to keep his Bishop where it is to protect that pawn.  If he wants to push that pawn up, then he will be moving it to a square with double coverage and he will end up on the losing side of the exchanges.

Something tells me that 25.Rfe1 is going to be a real thorne in his side. 

Any thoughts?

@Incredibill

I have no problem with 25.Rfe1 since that's both natural, and good move I think - something I'd think instinctively, I guess. I agree with your evaluation of the previous move - now Black has to defend with pieces, not pawns, by playing f5.

@kid_of_chess

Forget what I said in the analysis about an actual refutation - there doesnt seem to be any, but OTB Black can set some practical problems. Since I see it as a forced win or a loss of a Bishop for nothing, I would then rather suggest for Black along the blue line, 3.Bxb4 e4?! which opens the diagonal, but stalls the opening of the e-pawn.

Wherever we look at it though...I think Black really made a mistake with f5. I've played enough fianchettoes to see that the pawn formation has lost it strength...

Here's the analysis with your suggested line. Rfe1 is a flexible, latent move...who knows, it may be too passive to take advantage of the weak e5 pawn.

 AND just in case it doesnt show up when I press "Submit your comment>>" I'll post PGN too.

[Date "????.??.??"]
[Result "*"]
[FEN "4q2k/3r2bp/3Pr1p1/1p2pp2/1B3P2/8/P2Q1P1P/3RR1K1 w - - 0 1"]
[White "Incredibill"]
[Black "zrylam"]
[Site "Chess.com"]
[Event "Some random game"]

1.Kg2 { Just triangulating - I set up the board wrong. } 1...Qf8 2.Kf1 Kg8 3.Kg1 Kh8 4.Qd5 { I moved around to set the board up right. However, as I said, note that the line this came from has already been refuted. } 4...Qf6 { This is principally not good - not only you highlight the weakness caused by the f6-f5 move, but you block the crucial defender - the bishop at g7. Aesthetically not pleasing. } ( 4...Qe8! { This is better IMO - it lines up the Q+R, protects the R, and adds a defender to the e pawn. } 5.fxe5 { And now this is not so good anymore for white because of } 5...Rxe5 { White exchange also works. } ( 5...Bxe5?! { I think this is the right capture, wrong piece, } 6.f4!! { Wins } 6...Bd4+ { Black must do this move to minimise damage. } ( 6...Bg7?? 7.Rxe6 ) 7.Qxd4+ { White's a piece up - Exchange!!! } 7...Kg8 ) 6.Bc3 ( 6.Rxe5 Bxe5 ( 6...Qxe5?? 7.Qa8+ { Same problem as before - checkmate. } ) 7.Re1!! Bxh2+ 8.Kxh2 ) 6...Rxe1+ 7.Rxe1 Qf8 ) 5.fxe5 Rxe5 6.Rxe5 Qxe5 ( 6...Qg5+!! {A practical defense against your line - you forgot this zwischenzug. Boom. } 7.Kf1 Bxe5 8.Qxe5+ Kg8?? ( 8...Rg7 9.Qe8+ Rg8 10.Bc3+ Qf6 11.Bxf6# ) 9.Qe6+!! ) 7.Qa8+
*

Oh and @Incredibill, one mroe thing - if Rfe1 then Black can look to play prophylaxis and avoid the whole concept of trapped in corner/king in weak dark squares/pins on and x-rays through the bishop, with Kg8. It's too late for me to start doing calculations, its 2.30am and need to sleep, but I don't know if Black will have the tempo needed to defend against f4. I only suggested f4 immediately to capitalize on dark square weaknesses very early.

o wait guys on f4 i think we missed Bh6

Hint: try inserting the board right before pressing the submit comment button. In my experience, sometimes moving the place holder with text (or enters) causes just it to appear, so inserting it last or being careful not to move it should help. Anyways, here is your analysis:

I went through all of the lines suggested, and I like the way things are setting up.  Since no one has warned me away from my 25.Rfe1 move, I think I am going to make it.  Mainly to get my Rook out from behind my pawns and pointing his guns down the e-file.  I will still have the option of making the f4 move on a subsequent turn ( depending on what @zrylam does).  For now I think the Rook move improves my position and creates some problems for @zrylam.

Therefore, my official move is . . . . 25.Rfe1

Oh for crying out loud, first the board didn't appear, and now my entire post hasn't?

"This House believes that Chess.com hates ScarredEyes"

I'd be a blimin' proponent of that!!!

Anyway, repeating...

@kid_of_chess

I didn't see Bh6. However, White still has an advantage after Qb2, pinning the e pawn. I analysed it a lot, and figured it was crushing, until Black plays Bxf4, which is prob the best defense. I found that early, so can't remember it well as I'm typing now, but I'll post the game again...

and stubborn_d0nkey Thanks for tips on posting, it might just solve my problem...

Well, ScarredEyes, just for the record, Black definately has at least a draw on 25.f4 Bh6 26.Qb2 Bxf4 27.Be3 Qg5 28.Kh1 Bxh2+ or something

I just woke up, so i may be mistaken, but isn't it 28 ...Bxh2 not 28...Bxh2+? Doesnt black lose their queen?

Ok...let me see...I still think Bh6 is a good defensive move, but Qg5+ does not look like it.