Longest Mate (Official) - Mate in 545

idreesarif

nochewycandy

the fifty move rule would have taken place already

idreesarif
nochewycandy wrote:

the fifty move rule would have taken place already

this is the question, If white has a win and by best play he will need more than 500 moves to force the first exchange, why should the 50-move rule invoked here ???

chaotic_iak

You should try reading the history of the 50-move rule. In the past, it had a bunch of exceptions for mate in 60, mate in 70, and so on, but there were just too many exceptions that the exceptions were abolished.

BigDoggProblem
idreesarif wrote:
nochewycandy wrote:

the fifty move rule would have taken place already

this is the question, If white has a win and by best play he will need more than 500 moves to force the first exchange, why should the 50-move rule invoked here ???

To save us from endgames like these, of course!

A human eye can't even tell white is making progress during the solution. I could make up my own mate in 698 and claim it was a tablebase and no one would question it.

idreesarif

btw I got it form http://chessok.com/?page_id=27966

TheGrobe
BigDoggProblem wrote:
idreesarif wrote:
nochewycandy wrote:

the fifty move rule would have taken place already

this is the question, If white has a win and by best play he will need more than 500 moves to force the first exchange, why should the 50-move rule invoked here ???

To save us from endgames like these, of course!

A human eye can't even tell white is making progress during the solution. I could make up my own mate in 698 and claim it was a tablebase and no one would question it.

Except it's well documented from the Lomonosov seven man tablebase that this is the longest one.

BigDoggProblem
TheGrobe wrote:
BigDoggProblem wrote:
idreesarif wrote:
nochewycandy wrote:

the fifty move rule would have taken place already

this is the question, If white has a win and by best play he will need more than 500 moves to force the first exchange, why should the 50-move rule invoked here ???

To save us from endgames like these, of course!

A human eye can't even tell white is making progress during the solution. I could make up my own mate in 698 and claim it was a tablebase and no one would question it.

Except it's well documented from the Lomonosov seven man tablebase that this is the longest one.

Like people are going to go research that. :P

dinbog

I can't tell that white is making progress either. Can this sequence be understood by humans in terms of white slowly achieving certain milestones (e.g., "control square x" or "get king to square y"), or are we stuck just looking at it as a formal exercise?

BigDoggProblem
dinbog wrote:

I can't tell that white is making progress either. Can this sequence be understood by humans in terms of white slowly achieving certain milestones (e.g., "control square x" or "get king to square y"), or are we stuck just looking at it as a formal exercise?

Perhaps we could learn to recognize the progress, but why would we want to bother?

TurboFish

I watched the sequence all the way through.  Fun to see, but can't learn much from it.  It's amazing that this solution has been worked out, considering the computational difficulty of checking that entire branch of the move tree!  Maybe I'll live long enough for to hear about completion of the 8-man tablebase, but I don't think I'll be around for the 9-man version.

I saw some hanging pieces.  Could you please post all of the subvariations? Wink

rooperi

I think it's just amazing  that with tablebases we can find things like this now. I know it's useless, but much of chess' most entertaining aspects are useless.

Question:

Is this definitely the longest mate in the 7 man TB, or just the longest found so far?

idreesarif
rooperi wrote:

I think it's just amazing  that with tablebases we can find things like this now. I know it's useless, but much of chess' most entertaining aspects are useless.

Question:

Is this definitely the longest mate in the 7 man TB, or just the longest found so far?

The 7-Man TBBs are complete ... so this is surely the longest mate possible with 7 pieces on the board.

dinbog
BigDoggProblem wrote:

Perhaps we could learn to recognize the progress, but why would we want to bother?

Curiosity! I certainly do not expect to use anything I learn here in an actual game.

rooperi
idreesarif wrote:
rooperi wrote:

I think it's just amazing  that with tablebases we can find things like this now. I know it's useless, but much of chess' most entertaining aspects are useless.

Question:

Is this definitely the longest mate in the 7 man TB, or just the longest found so far?

The 7-Man TBBs are complete ... so this is surely the longest mate possible with 7 pieces on the board.

Im not sure how TB's are made or structured. Is it possible to search for specific things, eg all mates in 23?

idreesarif
rooperi wrote:
idreesarif wrote:
rooperi wrote:

I think it's just amazing  that with tablebases we can find things like this now. I know it's useless, but much of chess' most entertaining aspects are useless.

Question:

Is this definitely the longest mate in the 7 man TB, or just the longest found so far?

The 7-Man TBBs are complete ... so this is surely the longest mate possible with 7 pieces on the board.

Im not sure how TB's are made or structured. Is it possible to search for specific things, eg all mates in 23?

all possible positions with 7 pieces on the board are analysed for every single variation upto mate ....

so yes I think these trivia questions can be answered.

may be you'll like this : http://chessok.com/?page_id=27966

The_Ghostess_Lola
nochewycandy wrote:

the fifty move rule would have taken place already

Yes, but maybe neither side would want to call the 50-move rule, so the game continues....Smile....but, at move 514...Rxd3, black should ask for the 50-move rule draw (now being at a piece disadvantage)....unfortunately, white mates before 50 moves from there....love it !  

rooperi
idreesarif wrote:
rooperi wrote:
idreesarif wrote:
rooperi wrote:....

Im not sure how TB's are made or structured. Is it possible to search for specific things, eg all mates in 23?

all possible positions with 7 pieces on the board are analysed for every single variation upto mate ....

so yes I think these trivia questions can be answered.

may be you'll like this : http://chessok.com/?page_id=27966

Thanx, intersting link. I love that zugzwan position.

chaotic_iak
The_Ghostess_Lola wrote:
nochewycandy wrote:

the fifty move rule would have taken place already

Yes, but maybe neither side would want to call the 50-move rule, so the game continues........but, at move 514...Rxd3, black should ask for the 50-move rule draw (now being at a piece disadvantage)....unfortunately, white mates before 50 moves from there....love it !  

It is a capture. The 50-move counter is reset to zero at precisely that move. Black should have claimed draw the move before.

The_Ghostess_Lola

Oh....so don't you have to request the count to begin ?...oh yeah, that makes sense....Remember it happened to me once here in a game. I requested a draw at around 55 moves and got it !....Thanks for the clarity chaotic_iak....Smile....