Black resigned - but why?

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Bubatz

 

This is an annotated game in Joe Gallagher's book "Starting Out: The King's Indian". The game started with the Smyslov variation. After 38. Bf2-e3, Black resigned. While I think he is indeed worse (his bishop is kind of incarcerated), I can't see a reason to resign. Gallagher does not state it so he must think it a triviality. But what about 38 ... Qe7? Wouldn't Black at least hold on here?

OldHastonian

I haven't read the book, but wouldn't have resigned as Black; and I agree Qe7 is Black's best move in the above diagram.

Skwerly

Qc6 then.  i dunno, looks better for white, but not easy.

beardogjones

after qe7 shredder gives white a 0.93 pawn advantage but does not show

a winning continuation. I think exchanging queens and putting wk on g4 is a good start. g4 is the suggested move...

MDWallace

If Qe7 for Black, what about Qc6 for White?  If Qd8 then Qe5. True Black has a check but White just moves h2. Otherwise Black plays Qb8 and White captures the pawn on g5 and h6. I could be wrong, but that seems to be White's best try here.

Bubatz
MDWallace wrote:

If Qe7 for Black, what about Qc6 for White?  If Qd8 then Qe5. True Black has a check but White just moves h2. Otherwise Black plays Qb8 and White captures the pawn on g5 and h6. I could be wrong, but that seems to be White's best try here.


But if 38...Qe7, 39.Qc6, Black hasn't only 39...Qd8, but also 39...Qf6. Then if 40.Qc7+, Black just goes 40...Kg6 and I can't see any progress for White.

Gm_andrewfeng
I have No Eye Deer
VLaurenT
Bubatz wrote:
MDWallace wrote:

If Qe7 for Black, what about Qc6 for White?  If Qd8 then Qe5. True Black has a check but White just moves h2. Otherwise Black plays Qb8 and White captures the pawn on g5 and h6. I could be wrong, but that seems to be White's best try here.


But if 38...Qe7, 39.Qc6, Black hasn't only 39...Qd8, but also 39...Qf6. Then if 40.Qc7+, Black just goes 40...Kg6 and I can't see any progress for White.


Maybe 39.Qc6 Qf6 40.Qxf6 - then bring white king to g4, and zugzang black with the threat of Bxc5 at some stage ?

Bubatz
hicetnunc wrote:
Bubatz wrote:
MDWallace wrote:

If Qe7 for Black, what about Qc6 for White?  If Qd8 then Qe5. True Black has a check but White just moves h2. Otherwise Black plays Qb8 and White captures the pawn on g5 and h6. I could be wrong, but that seems to be White's best try here.


But if 38...Qe7, 39.Qc6, Black hasn't only 39...Qd8, but also 39...Qf6. Then if 40.Qc7+, Black just goes 40...Kg6 and I can't see any progress for White.


Maybe 39.Qc6 Qf6 40.Qxf6 - then bring white king to g4, and zugzang black with the threat of Bxc5 at some stage ?


Hmm ... I think Black should be fine in this scenario bringing his own bishop to f6 and his King to g6. If White plays Bxc5, then he has a passer, but Black will still be able to stop it via Bd8-c7. And then he'll win!

VLaurenT

Correct, so this is not the answer we're looking for Smile

Bubatz
hicetnunc wrote:

Correct, so this is not the answer we're looking for


I still hope someone will show us, but I'm also relieved that it seems not to be so trivial after all. I felt quite dumb when I was confronted with Gallagher's dry comment "Black resigns". Smile 

stubborn_d0nkey

I'm thinking that black has very little to play (especially his bishop), and that white might have some kind tactic available (in the future, perhaps a bishop sacrifice) to get a passed queenside pawn. It's not really an obvious immediate advantage for white, but it seems like something that can be milked to the end.

After Qe7 I think white's plan would be to activate his king:

 

pfren

I don't see a winning plan for white. Black just places his queen on f6 and bishop on g7, and does nothing. How can white break in?

BTW Gallagher has missed in his books much worse things than this one.

Bubatz
pfren wrote:

BTW Gallagher has missed in his books much worse things than this one.


But why did GM Mamedov resign then?

pfren

You may have to ask him. I see no win for white, factly I do not even see a logical plan to break in.

Bubatz
pfren wrote:

You may have to ask him. I see no win for white, factly I do not even see a logical plan to break in.


Well, that still leaves me a bit dazzled, but at least I don't feel quite as dumb anymore. I was thinking about this position for at least 30 minutes and couldn't find the reason for Black's resignation either. So I concluded there must be some arcane endgame wisdom involved that eludes me (which it indeed does all too often).

ilmago

Black in that game was Chingiz Mamedov, rated 2224. He has never been a GM.

(Sharif, Mershad 2474 - Mamedov, Chingiz 2224)

Also, GM Rauf Mamedov, whom you might have been thinking about, was 13 years old in 2001, having an ELO rating of also only around 2200 at that time.

For the end of the named game, I can imagine several explanations:

* black may have resigned, out of overly great respect of his IM strength opponent, seeing how his position is very passive, and all of black's pawns seem to be fixed on squares of the bishops' colour, which seems to make them targets.

* Black may have continued playing this, and have been outplayed by his stronger opponent in the course of the ensuing endgame, while the remaining moves may not have been recorded for some reason (for example because of time-trouble, or illegibility of the remainder of the scoresheets, or so)

* Seeing this game ended on move 38, black may have lost it on time or so.

stubborn_d0nkey
pfren wrote:

You may have to ask him. I see no win for white, factly I do not even see a logical plan to break in.


How about the moves I posted? Do you agree with them? If that is correct I see some kinda plan for white, get his bishop to c3 via Bd2-c3, then black will have to get his bishop d6 to protect the e-pawn, causing the b-pawn to  become undefended and white goes after that with Qc6 or Qb7 (depending on wether black has moved his king, and to where).

Edit: It seems like that doesn't really work (that easily) either.

pfren
stubborn_d0nkey wrote:

How about the moves I posted? Do you agree with them? If that is correct I see some kinda plan for white, get his bishop to c3 via Bd2-c3, then black will have to get his bishop d6 to protect the e-pawn, causing the b-pawn to  become undefended and white goes after that with Qc6 or Qb7 (depending on wether black has moved his king, and to where)


I prefer the black queen on f6, and the bishop to g7. Then I just move my king aimlessly to h6/g6 etc, and I can find no plan for white. The more I look in it, the more drawish it seems.

Bubatz
ilmago wrote:

Black in that game was Chingiz Mamedov, rated 2224. He has never been a GM.

(Sharif, Mershad 2474 - Mamedov, Chingiz 2224)

Also, GM Rauf Mamedov, whom you might have been thinking about, was 13 years old in 2001, having an ELO rating of also only around 2200 at that time.

For the end of the named game, I can imagine several explanations:

* black may have resigned, out of overly great respect of his IM strength opponent, seeing how his position is very passive, and all of black's pawns seem to be fixed on squares of the bishops' colour, which seems to make them targets.

* Black may have continued playing this, and have been outplayed by his stronger opponent in the course of the ensuing endgame, while the remaining moves may not have been recorded for some reason (for example because of time-trouble, or illegibility of the remainder of the scoresheets, or so)

* Seeing this game ended on move 38, black may have lost it on time or so.


Thanks, that clears things up further - I indeed automatically thought that Black was Rauf Mamedov. Also your three possible explanations regarding Black's resignation sound kind of plausible. What remains is the question why Gallagher (an author I generally appreciate very much) does not deem it worth commenting on the cause of resignation, especially as he does so throughout his book in all cases where it is not immediately obvious. Maybe it is because he devotes very little space to the Smyslov variation of the KID anyway. It's discussed at the end of the book, almost like an afterthought. I also noticed that he didn't use that particular game in his later book "Play the King's Indian" anymore.