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Please help me analyze a wild game

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Scottrf
ChristianSoldier007 wrote:

My closing comment would be that you could have handled this differently, recognizing my effort and my desire to help others by sharing the knowledge that I have gained. I understand that you have a poor opinion of that knowledge but your mean-spirited approach only served to frustrate. I can see the point you are trying to make and even agree that I am not as experienced, but everyone can see my rating and understand I am not an expert and don't claim to be. I just wanted to help others. If you truly want to be helpful, you would see it from my perspective instead of slamming me. I wish you well and have no further desire to discuss this. 

He's not criticising your intentions. If you believe your rating is lower than your understanding it's probably because your missing important concepts or tactics in your games. If you analyse a game and miss them, it's not helping them because they will make the same mistakes again.

Helzeth
johnmusacha wrote:

Hey!  I am the Original poster in this thread and have watched Christian Soldier's video on "You Tube" and thought it was great! 

You all can see the video Christian Soldier posted and his trenchant analysis here: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS3aYYfxbKU&feature=youtu.be

To be honest, at first I was kind of wary of this video, considering all the negative comments in this thread.  But having since seen the video in its entirety, I have now watched it repeatedly for the last four hours.  I have started to take reams of notes on heretofore unconsidered aspects of the game and now feel fully armed to break a 2200+ rating by the time I start my latest tournament. 

Thanks!

Are you serious?


 

These videos arent instructional, the only instructional part for me was trying to outdo his analysis while looking at the board through the yt chess window while he screwed up everything even when he was moving his pieces during the analysis.

 

I cant imagine anyone getting a solid understanding of chess from watching these videos. This is a player I consider just about as far as possible from being russian. The reason this is so nagging for me is because I have a truly wonderful trainer, a fidemaster who gained his ''right'' to train with his own achievements. When he speaks he speaks from experience, talent, knowledge and russianness. This guy has nothing to back him up and the only reason he does this is so he can convince to himself that his analytical powers are above the 1200 player... Which they arent.

Ben_Dubuque

"Mien furer I can Walk"

musical montage of Nukes follows

TonyH

 rating has zero to do with the ability to teach or train someone. The ability to relate information is a skill unto itself. I have personally watched GM's that tried to teach a rook endgame to players rated 800-1000 and thought it was appropirate to show a Kramnik-Leko match game. Epic fail. The fact he thought it was the right thing to do showed me that teaching a certain level of player is a skill in itself. He lacked the humility to understand that he couldn't relate to the ideas and thought process of players rated lower than much lower than him. A key idea in teaching is that your humble enough to understand your limitations but also understand when something is important.

I dont have to know how to play a musical instrument to know what sounds good. a 1200 player CAN teach and relate concepts if they are using good material and consolidate it into something that others can comprehend easier. 

My note to the game are designed for that persons level. I dont bother with complex 8 move tactical ideas because its not appropirate. Introducing simple ideas and plans are more important. Summarizing typical the players mistakes or apparent weaknesses and their strengths is more helpful.

Finally CS007's putting himself out there and trying to analyze games. I will  tell him to keep doing that no matter what. accept challenges to your thoughts and ideas but putting what you think down in 'writing' (video) is great way to improve. Keep doing it and you will be a master 

theunsjb
TonyH wrote:
 
Keep doing it and you will be a master 

CS007's own rating has not improved since 2010 (in any variation of the game).  But then again, players become masters in all sorts of ways.  Perhaps his way is on the road less traveled...

Nobody here is questioning his good intentions.  But his videos (and training methods obviously) are not suitable for chess improvement of any kind.

TonyH

I think your confusing training with analyzing. he has a lot to learn but if he keeps an open mind this is the right process to do so. Just be humble and ask for opinions.

GM Marin's training method is to sit at a tournament and ask ANYONE who comes by their opinion about a position and to analyze, class player or GM. Sometimes that novice approach will provide an insight (ok very often not too)Fischer used to watch games of "fishes" for ideas that they could not properly execute.

theunsjb

Let's look at some of the comments joeydvivre posted about the video.

4. h3.  Avoiding the pin on the knight.

6. Ne5  In the video this was stated as being a "good" move because the knight is on some "good outpost" or something .

6 ... Nf6  Also being sold as being a "good" move.

Now you have a novice player watching this video.  If he follows the advice given in the video, the outcome in his play will be:

1) He plays an immediate h3 as soon as he sees any phantom "pin" on his minor pieces, weakening his king-side in the process and IMO making it a juicy target for an attack later on if the novice player is going to castle to that side of the board.

2) He's going to look for any possible excuse to violate opening principles by placing his knights on "good outposts", neglecting development altogether.

3) He won't mind trading off knights left right and centre, as long as the enemy knight is removed from the "good square" he was on.

I try keeping an open mind about things TonyH, but for the life of me I cannot see how this is any way to improve, or to help improving players.

But then again, that's just my humble (novice) opinion. Smile

TonyH

because of what your doing right now?! he is challenging your ideas and his own forcing you to make a statement. how many people remain silent about their thoughts and dont have them challenged by anyone... 

I did finally look at the video and he does miss a few points. (some I pointed out in my analysis) 

ok so lets look at this and provide some valid feedback. What I DO LIKE about his videos is that he gives an insight into his thought process. at least he is THINKING about moves unlike most players at the u1500 level who just move to make some silly 1 move threats. 

the position is not a dragon since its still closed. dragon is a very specific reference to a particular opening in the OPEN siclian. 

h3 is kinda useless but n its not a horrible blunder but ok there are more useful moves and it shows a lack of a plan. and perhaps he can allow the pin to encourage kingside expansion etc.... anyway not important but your right dont be afraid of pins but respect them too. after g6 the pin is pretty easy to break so i might even encourage it. 

sure development is important but not  so much in a postition thats not open. Nd5 is premature and shows again a lack of a plan in a closed position

The funny part is Nd5 is also not a horrible losing move and black's best response might be to gain space with a6 , b5 etc maybe at some point e6 OR even Nh6 depending on what white does.

Again use the videos as a sounding board. I wish more of my students would do something like this since it allows me to see what they are thinking and guide it a bit more. (I am careful to not use things like always and never unless i KNOW thats the truth) 

Perhaps a good way for him to do this would be to create a video of a game he likes and post it i the forum, let people analyze it honestly then have a useful discussion and then refine the videos so they become more useful teaching tools.

Scottrf
TonyH wrote:

because of what your doing right now?! he is challenging your ideas and his own forcing you to make a statement. how many people remain silent about their thoughts and dont have them challenged by anyone... 

I did finally look at the video and he does miss a few points. (some I pointed out in my analysis) 

ok so lets look at this and provide some valid feedback. What I DO LIKE about his videos is that he gives an insight into his thought process. at least he is THINKING about moves unlike most players at the u1500 level who just move to make some silly 1 move threats. 

the position is not a dragon since its still closed. dragon is a very specific reference to a particular opening in the OPEN siclian. 

h3 is kinda useless but n its not a horrible blunder but ok there are more useful moves and it shows a lack of a plan. and perhaps he can allow the pin to encourage kingside expansion etc.... anyway not important but your right dont be afraid of pins but respect them too. after g6 the pin is pretty easy to break so i might even encourage it. 

sure development is important but not  so much in a postition thats not open. Nd5 is premature and shows again a lack of a plan in a closed position

The funny part is Nd5 is also not a horrible losing move and black's best response might be to gain space with a6 , b5 etc maybe at some point e6 OR even Nh6 depending on what white does.

Again use the videos as a sounding board. I wish more of my students would do something like this since it allows me to see what they are thinking and guide it a bit more. (I am careful to not use things like always and never unless i KNOW thats the truth) 

Perhaps a good way for him to do this would be to create a video of a game he likes and post it i the forum, let people analyze it honestly then have a useful discussion and then refine the videos so they become more useful teaching tools.

You're basically saying the video is good for a student to make. That's not the point of it, he's trying to teach people. If you miss important concepts or give poor advice you're making the people watching the video a worse player.

hankas

You guys certainly have too much time on your hands. Laughing

TonyH

wow ok fancy words and more insults always work to further a conversation

Btw learn to spell student before you start acting high and mighty.
The logic you fail to see is that there is a low correlation between a title-rating-skill at something and the ability to teach.  

So your trolling is done and all futher baiting attempts will be ignored

Scottrf
TonyH wrote:

wow ok fancy words and more insults always work to further a conversation

Btw learn to spell student before you start acting high and mighty.
The logic you fail to see is that there is a low correlation between a title-rating-skill at something and the ability to teach.  

So your trolling is done and all futher baiting attempts will be ignored

Maybe, but while a strong player may be not always be a very good teacher, they have the potential to be. A poor chess player doesn't even have the potential to be a good teacher.

Scottrf
AnthonyCG wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
TonyH wrote:

wow ok fancy words and more insults always work to further a conversation

Btw learn to spell student before you start acting high and mighty.
The logic you fail to see is that there is a low correlation between a title-rating-skill at something and the ability to teach.  

So your trolling is done and all futher baiting attempts will be ignored

Maybe, but while a strong player may be not always be a very good teacher, they have the potential to be. A poor chess player doesn't even have the potential to be a good teacher.

This is completely untrue. The problem is that some players are so good at the game and are so used to advanced concepts being normal that they lack the ability to relate to those on a much lower level. It is possible to change this but it will take work.

A poor chess player while weak in some areas may have a far better time in teaching a concept than the out of touch master because the master may be completely unable to relate the ideas to the beginner. He will nag on and on but if the ideas go over the student's head then nothing has been taught.

Teaching an ability and learning one are two completely different concepts.

It's not untrue. You can't teach something you don't understand.

Of course a poor chess player can teach easy concepts, but who needs a teacher for that?

Again, you use the superfluous 'not every good player is a good teacher', noone has argued that.

waffllemaster

Whilte it's true not all titled players can teach well (maybe you can say most?).  The main problem IMO is knowing the skill it's absolutely a requirement for teaching that skill.  I don't know how you can argue that a beginner can teach more than, say, how the pieces move and the difference between a fork and a pin.

waffllemaster
alexlaw wrote:

woah lol if i teach people for money i'd call myself a bad teacher.

things i tell people i teach (in order of importance)

1. material

2. development

3. finding a plan

4. stopping your opponent plans

This is good... and probably why I'd have problems teaching a complete beginner.  I'd want to start right off with "ok, the queen's worth 9 right? but not always, take a loot at this position where the knight is worth more than a rook"

Laughing

waffllemaster

At least I know that would be wrong to start with :p

To me anyway, so much in the beginning is just getting the experience in to start noticing familiar moves / patterns.  I'd probably tell them something along the lines of, go make an account at chess.com and play at least ____# of games a week.  Also take this book of master games and play over at least ___# and when we meet again we'll go over your games / questions.

zborg
joeydvivre wrote:

Take ChristianSoldier who thinks he is a master of the closed Lopez.   And now a 1200 player says he is the master of the closed Lopez?  Huh?  

I watched part of that video also.  What a tool.  That kid probably sits there with a copy of MCO in his lap when he plays G/15 online, and he (apparently) sells his crap analysis to others "tools" via You Tube.

All his antics prove is that gullible people love to have their face (or voice) on TV (or You Tube).  Some people still watch info-mercials and make 3 easy payments of $19.95. Free shipping included, of course.  Smile

He is a well-spoken zealot.  But his chess instruction leaves much to be desired. But some folks are just too lazy to buy a decent chess book and get to work on it.

waffllemaster

[edit]  I didn't watch long enough to hear him say any thing wrong, so I can't complain :)

zborg

The video was lame.  The insinuation that he was selling his advice was simply a joke.  Whatever.

@Joey, you are a true contrarian.  Go get em'.

benonidoni

Whats the question?