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QGD - Why Did I Lose?

  • #1
    And how can I not lose next time?
     
  • #2

    You didn't play the QGD. With 6.. dxc4, that is accepting the gambit.

    You weakened your kingside with 11..g5. 

    You gave up two knights for a rook and a pawn.

    Gave up the exchange with 21..Qe7.

    Then you traded off the remaining pieces and couldn't hold off the extra knight.

    None of these losses were forced.

    All these things add up to a lost game.

  • #3

    Analysis

     

    You lost for a lot of reasons, quick summary:

     

    2..Nf6? is a well known bad move. It could have got your knight kicked around and white having a big center for free.

     

    7.. 0-0?! you should have tried to hold on to the pawn on c4, as white can't really win it back.

     

    8.. Nc6? puts the knight on a crappy square with nowhere to go.

     

    9.. Re8?! does nothing. A valid plan would have been to develop the bishop with b6 and Bb7.

     

    Because you didn't try to break the pin, eventually you felt forced to play g5 and that is really bad as that makes your king open to attack.

     

    And at the end you traded your only active pieces and is left with zero development and an open king.

  • #4

    @notmtwain Thanks for your response!

    @wrathss I believe the link is a different game. Thanks for your feedback!

  • #5

    Sorry you have to select game #3 in the playlist of studies. Didn't realize the URL don't point to the specific game.

  • #6
    wrathss wrote:

    Sorry you have to select game #3 in the playlist of studies. Didn't realize the URL don't point to the specific game.

    Aha. Thanks.

    @wrathss great info. Thank you very much!

  • #7
    I don't mind g5 that much, tbh. Black's already considerable worse, and normal play would pretty much lead to a slow, painful death. Weaknesses are only weaknesses if you can exploit them, anyway. When you're in a bad position, the best thing you can do is muddy the waters. What the engine thinks the best move is doesn't matter. g5 sharpens things a bit, and is black's nest practical chance.
  • #8
    WeakChessPlayedSlow wrote:
    I don't mind g5 that much, tbh. Black's already considerable worse, and normal play would pretty much lead to a slow, painful death. Weaknesses are only weaknesses if you can exploit them, anyway. When you're in a bad position, the best thing you can do is muddy the waters. What the engine thinks the best move is doesn't matter. g5 sharpens things a bit, and is black's nest practical chance.

    When should g5 be played?

  • #9
    Too general of a question for me. It's all positional judgment, and judgment of when to take a risk. In this case, g5 weakens the kingside, but gives you a small amount of freedom, and makes the position a little sharper than a "normal" continuation. There are far more factors that go into such a decision than I could easily explain. My message was a more general one regarding weakening your position being fine if you're already a good deal worse and trying to get counterplay.
  • #10
    WeakChessPlayedSlow wrote:
    Too general of a question for me. It's all positional judgment, and judgment of when to take a risk. In this case, g5 weakens the kingside, but gives you a small amount of freedom, and makes the position a little sharper than a "normal" continuation. There are far more factors that go into such a decision than I could easily explain. My message was a more general one regarding weakening your position being fine if you're already a good deal worse and trying to get counterplay.

    wow advanced stuff for me. Thanks grin.png

  • #11

    What will probably help is just focusing on the basics of the opening. Place and maintain a pawn in the center. Develop quickly. Castle. And in most double d pawn openings you shouldn't block the c pawn with the knight.

    Surprisingly the engine doesn't mind 6...dxc, which gives up your center, but after this you're in danger of being worse as you'll have to play accurately to justify it. People probably aren't mentioning it because the engine didn't mention it, but it's not a good move, don't play that. And then, as hinted above, after move 8...Nc6 your position is already really bad.

    So just a few minor adjustments would have made a big difference for you in this game. Yes other moves were not good, but I think you were lashing out, not knowing what to do (moves like g5) as a result of being in such a difficult position in the first place.

  • #12

    Get Sadler's QGD book, very instructive and fun read.

  • #13

    Thank you @poodle_noodle

    And thank you @Patzer8000

  • #14

     

     

     

    You lost for a lot of reasons, quick summary:

     

    2..Nf6? is a well known bad move. It could have got your knight kicked around and white having a big center for free.

     

    7.. 0-0?! you should have tried to hold on to the pawn on c4, as white can't really win it back.

     

    8.. Nc6? puts the knight on a crappy square with nowhere to go.

     

    9.. Re8?! does nothing. A valid plan would have been to develop the bishop with b6 and Bb7.

     

    Because you didn't try to break the pin, eventually you felt forced to play g5 and that is really bad as that makes your king open to attack.

     

    And at the end you traded your only active pieces and is left with zero development and an open king

     

     

    I have to respectfully disagree on one points here - however take my feedback with a grain of salt because clearly wrathss has a higher rating than I do

     

    RE: 2 NF6 isnt the bad move here. NF6 is a good move in order to protect the kingside post castle.  Your mistake was Bb4 after he had already gone bg5.  You're placing yourself in a precarious situation here and unless you have good caluclation abilities to ensure that you can cover your Knight and not compromise your pawn structure or put your Queen at risk I strongly advise against it.  In addition- you have traded off your 'Good Bishop' for a non-threatening knight - and for what?! a check? it doesnt net you anything of value.

    6: By move 6 you've lost the center.  Its pretty much done here.  

    RE: 8 NC6 - I believe he means here that Knight Nbd7 would have been a better move - that being you are covering your knight on NF6  - which is really your key weakness at this time (in addition to your decaying center position)

    11-13: Instead of developing your A7,B7 & C7 pawns - which may give you some leverage in the center - you are simply using your knights to gain some counterplay but it doesnt go anywhere.  There is no 'so what' to it

    19-25: Its not until move 25 that you've finally completed your development - from about move 20 onward it was causing you significant pain and lack of tactical options to not have your rooks connected.

  • #15

    And I have to disagree with @M4xP0wer. Here's my rundown:

    2... Nf6?! 3. cxd5 Nxd5 4. Nf3! followed by e2-e4 is clearly better for White. I don't get what he means by "to protect the kingside post castle", and in any event, if what he means is that a Nf6 is an important defender in situations where Black is facing kingside attacks, so what? Black isn't being attacked yet and in something like the QGD, probably will not be attacked in the near future. Black can play ... Nf6 on move 3 instead and it won't matter. 2... e6 or 2... c6 followed by 3... Nf6 is a better way to play.

    On 4... Bb4: This move is perfectly fine. "You're placing yourself in a precarious situation here" is completely false and "unless you have good calculation abilities to ensure that you can cover your Knight and not compromise your pawn structure or put your Queen at risk I strongly advise against it" is sketchy at best. Not "compromising your pawn structure" is easy. Just play ... Nbd7 or something before you move your Queen somewhere. In addition to that, "putting your Queen at risk" is almost impossible in this position, since meeting the bad Bxf6? with Qxf6 is actually good for Black, netting the bishop pair and developing another Black piece, while the Black Queen is more than safe after something like ... Qa5, and it performs a useful function, too. Last point here: White's Nc3 is not the scariest thing ever, but it's a good piece which puts pressure on d5. Your DSB is also just that: a good piece which sits on the nice a3-f8 diagonal. The only difference between the two is that trading one for the other gives up the bishop pair. Now we see why both parts of this sentence are false: "... you have traded off your 'Good Bishop' for a non-threatening knight - and for what?! a check?" No, not really. Black gets something much more valuable - the c4-pawn.

    On 6... dxc4: This is also a good move. Sure, White gets the center and the bishop pair, but you have an extra pawn, and can still restrain White's center from afar with moves like ... b6 and ... Bb7. I also have to disagree with @poodle_noodle in that I believe that 6... dxc4 is the only good move here. Black has given up the bishop pair already, and if he doesn't get something for it he is clearly worse. You are already "in danger of being worse" after 4... Bb4, but that's chess. Both sides can be worse if they play badly. White is also in danger of being worse after 6... dxc4, so I rest my case. Black looks completely fine.

    8... Nc6: This is indeed bad, but not for the reason @M4xP0wer gave. Your Nf6 is not a true weakness: the pin on it just means that you can't move your Queen to some squares you would like to move it to right now. 8... Nbd7 fixes this problem and makes much more sense in terms of pawn breaks: on d7 the Knight helps to carry out the key ... c5 and ... e5 breaks.

    Moves 11-13: @M4xP0wer is right here. 11... b6, 12... Bb7, 13... Na5 and 14... c5 looks like a good way to get at least some counterplay here, although you're already seriously worse, as White has the center, the bishop pair and the pin on your Nf6 is very uncomfortable, and you don't even have an extra pawn.

    Moves 19-25: @M4xP0wer is right here again.

  • #16

    I agree with chesster on most things. Nf6 is a well know mistake, borderline losing. Luckily your opponent did not capitalize. Bb4, I would not personally play, I don't think it's great, but I think it is an ok move. I would suggest in the future playing something like Be7 or maybe Nbd7, if you don't want the pin. Keep in mind the main breaks in these structures are c5(sometimes e5), so place your pieces ideally for this. (b6, Bb7, Nbd7, c5, Rc8). After dxc4 e3 i think you should have played b5, even if it is not the best move, i think you have to hang on to the extra pawn here.

  • #17

    Wow! Some really good discussion here from everyone!

     

  • #18

    Thank you all very much.

    It seems this opening is way too advanced for me for now. happy.png

     

    What can I do to refute it? Carocan? King's Indian? Is there a way to avoid the QGA/QGD? Or is the QGD the refutation of the QGA?

     

    For example, if I don't want white to play the Ruy Lopez, I can play 2...d5, and go into the Scandinavian (which I don't yet know well, but that's a separate story happy.png).

     

    So, to avoid 1...d4, 3...c4, what can I play? (or to make those two moves not the best choices for white)

     

    @Terry1948 I agree 100%! I'm learning about ideas I never knew even existed (which, considering I'm < 1400, is not such a surprise, but still grin.png)

  • #19

    As already mentioned, 2...e6 followed by 3...Nf6 is the prefered method of entering into the QGD

    Some people like 4...Bb4. But it is a sharp line, that can get black into a lot of trouble, if he doesnt know the variations well. If you don't have time to study all those lines, I would recommend 4...Be7. Much smoother and safer.

    8....Nc6 does not look natutal here. It blocks the c-pawn, and does nothing about that pin on f6. 8....Nbd7 would have protected your Nf6. planning to follow up with ....c5 and .....Qa5 seems more normal.

    11....g5 really weakens black's king position. Sometimes you can get away with these moves. Just be aware of the risks, when you are considering such plans.

    14...Nxc3 stepped into a tactic, 15.Qd2. You salvaged a bit with 15...Nb3 and 16....Nxa1, but 2 minors are almost always better than a rook and pawn, Especially in closed positions.

    18....f5 while a concession, was a good move in the position, I think. It temporarily shut down the b1-h7 diagonal white was planning to attack on, and allowed blacks pieces to defend the king along the second rank. 18...f6 may have been considered as well.

    20....Qe7 walked into another basic tactic. All the positional nuances in the world won't help, if you are dropping another piece, every 4 moves. KNOW YOUR TACTICS.

    I didnt like 23....Qxb4 at first glance. Usually you want to keep queens on, if you are behind in material. But I see your point. White was going to play 24.Nd6 next, hitting b7 and c8.

    And afterwards, you reaped what you had sown. Your only 2 remaining pieces were undeveloped, as you had never considered a plan for unleashing your bishop. 

  • #20
    DaniSpringer wrote:

    Thank you all very much.

    It seems this opening is way too advanced for me for now.

     

    What can I do to refute it? Carocan? King's Indian? Is there a way to avoid the QGA/QGD? Or is the QGD the refutation of the QGA?

     

    For example, if I don't want white to play the Ruy Lopez, I can play 2...d5, and go into the Scandinavian (which I don't yet know well, but that's a separate story ).

     

    So, to avoid 1...d4, 3...c4, what can I play? (or to make those two moves not the best choices for white)

     

    @Terry1948 I agree 100%! I'm learning about ideas I never knew even existed (which, considering I'm < 1400, is not such a surprise, but still )

    The QGD is a very sound and simple opening for beginners. I also show the Nimzo, which is also quite good for your level.

    You will want to avoid openings like the KID or Gruenfeld, until you are better at tactics. (Unless you are the kinda guy who likes to jump in the deep end of the pool, to teach himself to swim. Then knock yourself out.)

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