Rook deployment in this position, game is over

AChessSpartan

In this game I played the rooks earlier than Stockfish would have liked. Stockfish shows Bg5 (which I normally play and understand), c4 (I kinda get it, but I don't see the long term goal behind it), Qc1? (No idea why this would be played), and Rad1 (yea, it is often played, but again I don't see the long term goal behind it.)

My thinking was to double up rooks on the b-file. Here is what was played.

blueemu

One of the ideas behind the suggested Bg5 was to threaten e5, ganging up on the pinned Knight.

AChessSpartan

Yes, I know, the point of the thread is to address the rook moves though. Why would Rad1 be better than what I had played?

Daniel1115

threatens d4 followed by d5 winning the queen (rad1). c4 looks for the same thing

JamesColeman

Bg5 looks like a pretty strong idea.

 

My guess is that rab1 allows him time for the preventative ...h6, Rad1 doesn’t due to d4-d5 then being possible.

corum

 

IMBacon


 

DeirdreSkye

I think that 17.Rab1 and doubling rooks on b-file was actually a quite strong idea.

The problem with chess is that first you have to prioritise and second you have to evlauate when a rtarget is realistic and when is not.In this case you have to decide between attacking the weak b6 or trying to exploit the bad position of his king.

     Attacking b6 is not so realistic because Black can easily defend it. Even if we assume that you double rooks on b-file , he already defends b6 with 2 pieces and he can move Nf6 to d7 and defend it even more. The king on the other hand will be on e7 for several moves and it's the big fish. If you  play d5 a lot of files  will open , there is always the threat of e5-Bg5+ or e5-Qxh7 if Rh8 moves and yu will create the additional threat of d6.

    Here are some sample lines

 


 

AChessSpartan

I see you guys spelling out other moves, and for the third time, I KNOW Bg5 is STRONG!!!! Saying it a bajillion times doesn't change the intent of the thread.

 

Let's please focus on Rad1. Someone said it wins a queen, how? I don't see how Rad1 wins a queen.

JamesColeman

It doesn’t win a Queen of course but there is d4-d5 in the air. A move, which, incidentally, you were not aware enough of since it would have also been very strong after 17.Rab1 Rbd8?? 18.d5! instead just choosing , for better or worse, to just carry out your plan more or less on autopilot.

blueemu
AChessSpartan wrote:

I see you guys spelling out other moves, and for the third time, I KNOW Bg5 is STRONG!!!! Saying it a bajillion times doesn't change the intent of the thread.

 Let's please focus on Rad1. 

You seem to be very fixated on learning why the engine considers one inferior move to be microscopically better than a different inferior move. 

Is this really a profitable subject for analysis?

Rat1960

#9  @AChessSpartan
"If you  play d5 a lot of files  will open" DeirdreSkye
17. Rad1 b5 (say) 18. d5 c6xd5 19.  e4xd5 e6xd5 (opps) 20. Bf4+ and bye bye queen.
The implication is 17. ... Kf8 should be played so that black's king is not in the centre when it blows up.
17. Ne5 Rbd8 18. Bf4 (threat Ng6+) Qb7 19.  Rab1
17. Rab1 Rbd8 ? 18. d5 (threat Bxb6) see JamesColeman #10
17. Rab1 h6 (copied from above) 18. Ne5 Rbc8 19. c4 Rhd8 20. Qb2 (and life is getting tough for the bishop)

corum
AChessSpartan wrote:

I see you guys spelling out other moves, and for the third time, I KNOW Bg5 is STRONG!!!! Saying it a bajillion times doesn't change the intent of the thread.

 

Let's please focus on Rad1. Someone said it wins a queen, how? I don't see how Rad1 wins a queen.

well, in your original post you did say that you didn't understand why white might play Qc1 so I kinda thought it wouldn't be unreasonable for me to suggest why. Sorry if that offended you.

AChessSpartan

I really question people's reading comprehension skills. Before you guys reply look at what I am asking and if I reply who I am replying to. It might not be directed at you personally.

 

"well, in your original post you did say that you didn't understand why white might play Qc1"

I was talking about Bg5, not your Qc1 comment on the thread. Please look at who I am replying to and what I am replying to.  Even what you quoted didn't refer to Qc1, but rather Bg5.

 

"You seem to be very fixated on learning why the engine considers one inferior move to be microscopically better than a different inferior move.

Is this really a profitable subject for analysis?"

 

No, you don't understand my question. During the game I didn't use an engine. During the game, I asked myself, "What will I do with the rooks?". If what I played with the rooks is good enough, then say that. If there is something better to do with the rooks, then please say that. I am not basing my questions on engine use. I am using engines to speed up any questions I ALREADY have. So, if you want to reply and you are a stronger player you don't have to go through the same steps. If you want to, IGNORE I USED A ENGINE!!! Do whatever you want to answer my question before I used the engine.

 

"to just carry out your plan more or less on autopilot."

Are you saying the "plan" is d5? Or are you referring to doubling up rooks on the b-file?

 

A or B guys, let's not confuse the main crux of the thread. But I am sure someone will reply with Bg5 or d5 again completely avoiding my rook question (which is in the title of this thread).


17. Rad1 b5 (say) 18. d5 c6xd5 19.  e4xd5 e6xd5 (opps) 20. Bf4+ and bye bye queen.
The implication is 17. ... Kf8 should be played so that black's king is not in the centre when it blows up.
17. Ne5 Rbd8 18. Bf4 (threat Ng6+) Qb7 19.  Rab1
17. Rab1 Rbd8 ? 18. d5 (threat Bxb6) see JamesColeman #10
17. Rab1 h6 (copied from above) 18. Ne5 Rbc8 19. c4 Rhd8 20. Qb2 (and life is getting tough for the bishop)"

 

Finally, rook lines, thanks for your comments. I will look into those lines. This is what I am looking for guys!!!

Rat1960

@AChessSpartan all the contributors to the thread are from the better regular contributors.