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Thoughts on this tournament game?

  • #1

    Note that I only had 6 minutes by move 23. If it's helpful, I have clock times for most of my moves

  • #2

    12. ... bc5 is not a redeployment that is usually seen in this position -- I think one issue is that your bishop really doesn't do anything extra on c5 ... pressure on f2 is not real relevant in this position.  Another is that d5 is a normal move for black in most lines, and the bishop clearly doesn't fit in with that.  

    Just in general, this line of the Ruy Lopez always seems tough for black to me, not real sure of the plans, and I accordingly don't feel real comfortable commenting.  Also, I think you were probably ok at move 23, when you started having to rush -- maybe white is a bit better after say bh7 since your c-rook seems misplaced and your queenside pawns potentially a little weak, but it doesn't seem particularly significant.  

    Maybe Pfren will comment further...

  • #3

    The main problem of 12...Bc5 from what I understand, is removing a defender from k-side and putting a bishop in a square that can be attacked and offer white a valuable tempo(after an eventual Ne4 or Nb3 or even b4).The bishop almost always has to  to withdraw to b6 or a7 and loses "contact" with k-side.

        Here is a sample line:


        These might not be the best moves but can give you an idea of the difficulties Black has after ...Bc5.


  • #4

    To me 12... Bc5 seems quite logical (the bishop is more active in c5 than in e7). However, it may be true that in this particular position it doesn't quite work tactically due to DeirdreSky's variation but I think that a better move order for white is 13. axb5! (instead of 13. exd5 Qxd5!) axb5 14. Rxa8 Qxa8 15. exd5 Nxd5 16. Ne4 etc.

    In any case I wouldn't get too fixated by this small detail as there probably are several more important moments in the game. For example 14... dxe4? seems a mistake due to 15. Bxc5 exf3 16. Ng3!. Instead, 14... d4!? is worth considering.

  • #5
    JustAverageSkill wrote:

    Note that I only had 6 minutes by move 23. If it's helpful, I have clock times for most of my moves>>>

    I don't know much about e4/e5 games so I can't comment on ...Bc5 except in general terms. 11. ...d5 is a loosening move for black and so is 12. ...Bc5 and they don't seem to fit into the same plan. However, I thought things were progressing OK for both sides until I saw 22. ....Rfc8, which I thought was a massive blunder and bound to bring problems ... and sure enough, the R was repositioned only a few moves later and then black was lost.

    ....Rc8 was an incorrect use of the f-rook in that position and it put the other rook out of the game, in many variations. Also it seemed a waste of time just when things on the k-side were hotting up. I thought that black had to play 24 ...Nxg3, whatever the tactical implications of that move, which are hard to assess when you have less than six minutes left. It should have been played instinctively because otherwise, white's attack becomes very strong and at least it might cut across white's plans.


  • #6

    I'm not a great player I will admit (just learning but moving up fast through 1200 right now), but Bc5 looks really bad to me.  Black just parked its dark-square bishop on an undefended square, aggressive but there is no real attack.  Bad move.  b4 forces it to move immediately, gaining a tempo and forcing it to retreat (probably Bb6 to keep that diagonal).  Now xb5 hits the knight, forcing axb5.  Here white can either trade rooks bringing the white queen to a8, or play Nb3, where it guards the rook.  Nb3 would be played anyhow if white did take the rook, as white can now drop into the newly formed outpost on c5, blocking that diagonal.  Moving the Knight here isnt just really activating the piece, but has also freed up whites dark square bishop.  Obviously d4 needs to be pushed to keep the pawn chain from collapsing.    

    There are probably a lot of better lines than that, but that is what I can see: one single move from black allowed an entire sequence of essentially forced moves which ends with a huge positional advancement for whites pieces.  (The other knight can end up on f5 as well).

    You were lucky white played Nf1, which is just awful. 


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