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the oldest chess game recorded

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SHRDLU

Thanks, Ayoubi-W.

As-Suli was a remarkable man. Donner admired him because of his tall stories about his travels and the opponents he had beaten, "a falsifier and a plagiarizer, in short — the first chess journalist."

Iknownotwhy

Al-Suli's Diamond

Solid white.svg a b c d e f g h Solid white.svg
8 a8 b8 c8 d8 e8 f8 g8 h8 8
7 a7 b7 c7 d7 e7 f7 g7 h7 7
6 a6 b6 c6 d6 e6 f6 g6 h6 6
5 a5 b5 c5 d5 e5 f5 g5 h5 5
4 a4 b4 c4 d4 e4 f4 g4 h4 4
3 a3 b3 c3 d3 e3 f3 g3 h3 3
2 a2 b2 c2 d2 e2 f2 g2 h2 2
1 a1 b1 c1 d1 e1 f1 g1 h1 1
Solid white.svg a b c d e f g h Solid white.svg
White to move, White wins

al-Suli created a shatranj problem called "al-Suli's Diamond" that went unsolved for over a thousand years.[1] As this is a shatranj, the "queen" (counsellor) is a very weak piece, able to move only a single square diagonally. It is also possible to win in shatranj by capturing all pieces except the king.

This ancient position is so difficult that there is no one in the world who would be able to solve it, except those I have taught to do so. I doubt whether anyone did this before me. This was said by al-Suli.

David Hooper and Ken Whyld studied this problem in the mid-1980s but were unable to crack it. It was finally solved by Russian Grandmaster Yuri Averbakh.[2][3] The solution given is 1. Kb4 in Hans Ree's "The Human Comedy of Chess".

NimzoRoy
MyCowsCanFly wrote:

I suppose it would depend on the point at which the game became "chess" as opposed to a precursor game. A related question might be when was the game first called "chess?"

A search of Chessbase Mega Database would give one answer. According to their description of the database, this would be the first game played and published ("recorded"). That game was played in 1560.

For some reason or other I'm not that impressed with Chessbase's authority here. Their specialty is chess software, not chess history. Also "the first game played and PUBLISHED" is hardly the equivalent of the first RECORDED game.

Maybe the game here is the winner, but what I'm leery of is how many chess "authorities" just blindly quote someone else until

A lie told often enough becomes the truth.  Lenin  Russian Communist politician & revolutionary (1870 - 1924) 

Ziryab
NimzoRoy wrote:
MyCowsCanFly wrote:

I suppose it would depend on the point at which the game became "chess" as opposed to a precursor game. A related question might be when was the game first called "chess?"

A search of Chessbase Mega Database would give one answer. According to their description of the database, this would be the first game played and published ("recorded"). That game was played in 1560.

For some reason or other I'm not that impressed with Chessbase's authority here. Their specialty is chess software, not chess history. Also "the first game played and PUBLISHED" is hardly the equivalent of the first RECORDED game.

Maybe the game here is the winner, but what I'm leery of is how many chess "authorities" just blindly quote someone else until

A lie told often enough becomes the truth.  Lenin  Russian Communist politician & revolutionary (1870 - 1924) 

If I had a dollar for every error in the ChessBase database, I could make an offer to buy chess.com.

MyCowsCanFly
NimzoRoy wrote:
MyCowsCanFly wrote:

I suppose it would depend on the point at which the game became "chess" as opposed to a precursor game. A related question might be when was the game first called "chess?"

A search of Chessbase Mega Database would give one answer. According to their description of the database, this would be the first game played and published ("recorded"). That game was played in 1560.

For some reason or other I'm not that impressed with Chessbase's authority here. Their specialty is chess software, not chess history. Also "the first game played and PUBLISHED" is hardly the equivalent of the first RECORDED game.

Maybe the game here is the winner, but what I'm leery of is how many chess "authorities" just blindly quote someone else until

A lie told often enough becomes the truth.  Lenin  Russian Communist politician & revolutionary (1870 - 1924) 

I tend to agree. It's just one way the definition could be operationalized. An advantage to this approach to the definition is that the games included in such databases have some utility because of their semblance to the game we play. I don't have a problem with drawing the line in that fashion.

Al-Khalifa93
Iknownotwhy wrote:
Al-Suli's Diamond
a b c d e f g h88 77 66 55 44 33 22 11a b c d e f g h
White to move, White wins

al-Suli created a shatranj problem called "al-Suli's Diamond" that went unsolved for over a thousand years.[1] As this is a shatranj, the "queen" (counsellor) is a very weak piece, able to move only a single square diagonally. It is also possible to win in shatranj by capturing all pieces except the king.

“ This ancient position is so difficult that there is no one in the world who would be able to solve it, except those I have taught to do so. I doubt whether anyone did this before me. This was said by al-Suli. ”

David Hooper and Ken Whyld studied this problem in the mid-1980s but were unable to crack it. It was finally solved by Russian Grandmaster Yuri Averbakh.[2][3] The solution given is 1. Kb4 in Hans Ree's "The Human Comedy of Chess".

excuse me, but I didn't understand the solution of this puzzle ?? 

could you please explain it for me :)

Al-Khalifa93
SHRDLU wrote:

Thanks, Ayoubi-W.

As-Suli was a remarkable man. Donner admired him because of his tall stories about his travels and the opponents he had beaten, "a falsifier and a plagiarizer, in short — the first chess journalist."

you are welcome Wink

jesterville

Maybe "batgirl" could shed some light on this history...light up the bat signal someone...

Iknownotwhy
Ayoubi-W wrote:
Iknownotwhy wrote:

al-Suli created a shatranj problem called "al-Suli's Diamond" that went unsolved for over a thousand years.[1] As this is a shatranj, the "queen" (counsellor) is a very weak piece, able to move only a single square diagonally. It is also possible to win in shatranj by capturing all pieces except the king.

“ This ancient position is so difficult that there is no one in the world who would be able to solve it, except those I have taught to do so. I doubt whether anyone did this before me. This was said by al-Suli. ”

 

excuse me, but I didn't understand the solution of this puzzle ?? 

could you please explain it for me :)

I really don't get it either ,and it seems not many do.I just included it for interest sake .Al-Suli was a genius it seems.Wink

Al-Khalifa93
Iknownotwhy wrote:
Ayoubi-W wrote:
Iknownotwhy wrote:

al-Suli created a shatranj problem called "al-Suli's Diamond" that went unsolved for over a thousand years.[1] As this is a shatranj, the "queen" (counsellor) is a very weak piece, able to move only a single square diagonally. It is also possible to win in shatranj by capturing all pieces except the king.

“ This ancient position is so difficult that there is no one in the world who would be able to solve it, except those I have taught to do so. I doubt whether anyone did this before me. This was said by al-Suli. ”

 

excuse me, but I didn't understand the solution of this puzzle ?? 

could you please explain it for me :)

I really don't get it either ,and it seems not many do.I just included it for interest sake .Al-Suli was a genius it seems.

LOL - thank you anyway Smile

jesterville

Nice of you to share this game OP. The old chess pieces are quite interesting, with different names and moves from the current. I wonder, what did they call the game then?

Al-Khalifa93
jesterville wrote:

Nice of you to share this game OP. The old chess pieces are quite interesting, with different names and moves from the current. I wonder, what did they call the game then?

they were call it shatranj or Chatrang both of them are correct 

ElKitch

Im gonna look through that game when I have time. I love the idea that centuries ago two people where thinking about the moves and made them.

Al-Khalifa93
ElKitch wrote:

Im gonna look through that game when I have time. I love the idea that centuries ago two people where thinking about the moves and made them.

it's very strange, am sure you are gonna like it :)

Al-Khalifa93
Iknownotwhy wrote:
Al-Suli's Diamond
a b c d e f g h88 77 66 55 44 33 22 11a b c d e f g h
White to move, White wins

al-Suli created a shatranj problem called "al-Suli's Diamond" that went unsolved for over a thousand years.[1] As this is a shatranj, the "queen" (counsellor) is a very weak piece, able to move only a single square diagonally. It is also possible to win in shatranj by capturing all pieces except the king.

“ This ancient position is so difficult that there is no one in the world who would be able to solve it, except those I have taught to do so. I doubt whether anyone did this before me. This was said by al-Suli. ”

David Hooper and Ken Whyld studied this problem in the mid-1980s but were unable to crack it. It was finally solved by Russian Grandmaster Yuri Averbakh.[2][3] The solution given is 1. Kb4 in Hans Ree's "The Human Comedy of Chess".

So why is the solution is Kb4 ?

Al-Khalifa93

if Ka2 then Kc4 Kx counsellor Kx counsellor then it's draw, maybe am not sure about that..

ekorbdal

The oldest chess game of all time occured in what was then loosely translated as fakeistan c.2700 bc. This quasi/apocryphal country was situated within what is now Macedonia. The famous 'Watergate' stone excavated by archaeologist Ivor Watergate 111 in 1946. It shows the outline of a chess board 7 inches (approx.) by 6 ie. 42 squares. The people of Fakeistan - it has been suggested -  advocated polygamy as each player had three queens. The moves were recorded by a bastardisation of near eastern and Icelandic runes. The result of the game will never be known as the tablet was lost due to a shipwreck on route back to Watergate's private museum in Hiksville Missouri (U.S.A) before any attempt was made to decifer by the C.I.A.

Al-Khalifa93
ekorbdal wrote:

The oldest chess game of all time occured in what was then loosely translated as fakeistan c.2700 bc. This quasi/apocryphal country was situated within what is now Macedonia. The famous 'Watergate' stone excavated by archaeologist Ivor Watergate 111 in 1946. It shows the outline of a chess board 7 inches (approx.) by 6 ie. 42 squares. The people of Fakeistan - it has been suggested -  advocated polygamy as each player had three queens. The moves were recorded by a bastardisation of near eastern and Icelandic runes. The result of the game will never be known as the tablet was lost due to a shipwreck on route back to Watergate's private museum in Hiksville Missouri (U.S.A) before any attempt was made to decifer by the C.I.A.

but it's not recorded, anyway thanks for these info.

Al-Khalifa93
ucanthandlethetruth wrote:

not a draw because according to the rules the first KxCounsellor wins. Black doesn't have the chance to KxC because when white did the game ended immediately.

so what is the logical answer for Kb4 ?

I guess you have beaten Averbakh this time and you will be recorded as the first man who found the solution :))

Al-Khalifa93

OK Thx..