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Violence in Philidor Defense

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MelvinGarvey

This thread is for chess players.

@yetanotheraoc played zero games since the account was opened in 2020.

Besides, 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bc4 Nf6 is a very bad line that gives Black a terrible game according to GM Christian Bauer in his book "The Philidor Files". But you are free to believe anything you want, including that the Earth is a cube.

LeoStix13
MelvinGarvey wrote:

This thread is for chess players.

@yetanotheraoc played zero games since the account was opened in 2020.

Besides, 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bc4 Nf6 is a very bad line that gives Black a terrible game according to GM Christian Bauer in his book "The Philidor Files". But you are free to believe anything you want, including that the Earth is a cube.

Oof

MelvinGarvey

Ah! (10mn)

 

Notice the proper way to deal with 7.a4 by 7...-a5! followed by Na6! then Nb4!, with a firm grip on the d5 square.

marqumax

I'm Philidor's fan! The opening is ok, I don't play it, but I loved the player

kjhfuyre

👌

darkunorthodox88
MelvinGarvey wrote:

This thread is for chess players.

@yetanotheraoc played zero games since the account was opened in 2020.

Besides, 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bc4 Nf6 is a very bad line that gives Black a terrible game according to GM Christian Bauer in his book "The Philidor Files". But you are free to believe anything you want, including that the Earth is a cube.

how?  the only thing exploitable about this move order is that black must be willing to tranpose to fried liver like stuff after ng5 d5 where the lack of nc6 may be superior to the true fried liver

pfren

The critical line after 3...Nf6 is this one:

 

Has Black full compensation for the sacrifised pawn? Most probably yes. But if he doesn't want to play a pawn down for positional compensation, then there's nothing wrong with 3...Be7, especially if he doesn't mind playing the ...exd4 lines.

darkunorthodox88
pfren wrote:

The critical line after 3...Nf6 is this one:

 

Has Black full compensation for the sacrifised pawn? Most probably yes. But if he doesn't want to play a pawn down for positional compensation, then there's nothing wrong with 3...Be7, especially if he doesn't mind playing the ...exd4 lines.

i see! thank you for the insight pfren


MelvinGarvey

Well, maybe my book is then outdated, because the line I said is the line told by GM Christian Bauer in his book "The Philidor Files" as a "nearly refutation" of the Philidor Defense, and the reason why GMs and all rather begin with 1...- d6 when they try to get a Philidor setup.

page 11, Chapter one "Early Deviations", paragraph "Third move alternatives for Black"

1.e4 - e5 2.Nf3 - d6 3.d4

page 12

A) 3...- Nc6?!

B) 3....- Bg4?!

C) 3...-Qe7?!

D) 3...- Nd7?!

E) 3...- f5?!

F) 3...- Nf6

As you guys can see, F) 3...- Nf6 is the only move not marked "?!".

The variations on F) 3...-Nf6 go from page 32 to page 43.

Let's read GM Bauer's conclusion on this chapter:

"Nearly all the variations studied in this chapter lead to difficult positions for Black.

Some options are practically losing, or at least dubious (3...- f5?! and 3...- Bg4,?! for instance).

Others, like 3...-Nf6 4.dxe5 - Nxe4 result in terrible endings for Black (but ones that can probably be held if the second player defends accurately).

We have realized through numerous examples that Black has a really tough task equalizing in the line 1.e4 - e5 2.Nf3 - d6 3.d4 - Nf6 4.Dxe5 - Nxe4 5.Qd5.

This surely explains why so few players are keen on defending the Black cause here, and instead look for new horizons."

I think this should make my point enough, since I'm not going to re-scan the 300 pages of the book in order to extract every bit of text and every variation that confirms what I said.

pfren
MelvinGarvey wrote:

Well, maybe my book is then outdated, because the line I said is the line told by GM Christian Bauer in his book "The Philidor Files" as a "nearly refutation" of the Philidor Defense, and the reason why GMs and all rather begin with 1...- d6 when they try to get a Philidor setup.

 

 

You mean that Bauer doesn't even mention (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4) 3...exd4?

And the argument was about 3...Be7 or 3...Nf6 after 3.Bc4, not 3.d4.

MelvinGarvey

That's just the next chapter. But the book is from 2006, so...

MelvinGarvey
pfren a écrit :

And the argument was about 3...Be7 or 3...Nf6 after 3.Bc4, not 3.d4.

 

Mmm... I guess I need to re-read all the stuff posted lately not when I'm tired or in a hurry or both.

MelvinGarvey

Okay, I see, I'll put down soon what's in the book about that 1.e4 - e5 2.Nf3 - d6 3.Bc4 - Nf6 line, today is such a busy day.