Chess rating system

  • #1061
    TonyMooney wrote:

    I think these ratings measure different things. Blitz challenges your speed of thought. OTB play at tournament speed tests your ability to calculate and to imagine complicated positions. Turn Based is more about strategy and understanding. There is overlap but they essentially require different skills. If you are at a similar level in each department, the scores should converge, otherwise they will be skewed to what you are good at.

    In my case, my rating falls the faster I move.

    I also found the same as you in TB. I used to play 1 or 2 games at a time and use the full 3 days and my rating shot up. I then noticed that nearly everyone else was playing multiple games and moving in a few minutes. So I did the same and...it went down. Glad I didn't give up the day job.


     Yup, that is a good point.  Another difference is that Blitz play measures what you know and Turn Based measures what you can figure out.  I normally play standard King's pawn opennings and I know some of the openning strategies and tactics.  When I play some one in a Blitz game and find myself in a position I know and my opponent does not then I win, however, in a position my opponent knows an I do not, I lose.  However, in turn based games, when I find myself in a position I do not know, I can study it very carefully and I may be able to figure out what is going on.

  • #1062

    I hadn't thought of that. It's a really good insight.

  • #1063

    "Using past results and Harkness ratings, Elo observed that the distribution of individual performances resembles a normal distribution"

    http://www.chessbase.com/newsprint.asp?newsid=4326

    What exactly is this "performance"?

  • #1064

    I have an idea about how to rate players during a RR tournament., and a general extension in mind.

    I believe a measure of the player strength relative to a certain game is given by the speed of the material gain. At the begining the material is even, and at the end  there are two posibilities:

    1. The game is a draw(any chess rule leading to a draw) .  

    No one loses both sides keeps its armies for a feature battle. In this case the game score is given by

    (material1 - material2)/(number_of_game_moves). One of the sides will have a positive score , while the other will have the same absolute score but with the sign changed.

    2. The game ends in mate. The side which loses the game is considered to lose all  the material in the end, as the soldiers cannot fight without their king.

    The score will be for the winner: 

    1.material_of_the_winner_at_last_move/number_of_game_moves

    And for the loser will be 

     (- material_of_the_winner_at_last_move)/number_of_game_moves.

    At a RR tournament is sufficient to add the score for every game for every player just like that.

    If a player competes in different tournaments we must take into account the adversary strength, and the player ranking  is computed different.

    The player strength is the average  of the cumulated game scores.

    Suppose the players strengths are s1 and s2,number of games played so far are n1 and n2, and player 1 has a positive game result: r( a draw does not need to be a zero result).

    Then compute

                        s1 =  (s1*n1+(s2/(s1+s2))*r)/(n1+1);

                        n1=n1+1;

                        s2=(s2*n2-(s2/(s1+s2))*r)/(n2+1);

                        n2=n2+1; 

    A simple numerical example s1=0.5 s2=0.26  n1=10 ; n2=25; r=1.25

     New stregths:

      s1= (0.5*10 + (0.26/0.76)*1.25)/11 = 0.49

      s2= (0.26*25 - (0.26/0.76)*1.25)/26 =0.23

    Also the probability the player 1 wins the player 2 is computed like (s1/s1+s2).

    Before the game p=65%; after the game p=68%.

    The interpretation of score 1.25:

    If the number of moves in current game was 30 , it means the winner had 30*1.25 in material at the last move.

    I will apreciate some feedback and how can we test this. 

     

    Andrei from Romania

  • #1065

    Andrei, what if you sacrificed material before mate? Your rating gain would not be as great yet a win through material sacrifice could be considered more skillful than a win retaining material.

  • #1066
    browni3141 wrote:

    Andrei, what if you sacrificed material before mate? Your rating gain would not be as great yet a win through material sacrifice could be considered more skillful than a win retaining material.


    There is a compensation for that. If the sacrifice is not seen by the opponent the game ends quickly and the ratio material/number_of_moves is still high.

    Also keep in mind that in this situation the material of the winner will be a big number because the opponent material does not count after mate(it is considered captured by the mate move):

    Suppose after a few moves one sacrifices it's queen and then mate. His material

    is a bigger number compared to the situation when no sacrifice is done and the game lasts for 40 moves.

  • #1067

    InnocentIts somr thing !! let me take little respite. then resume.

  • #1068

    To follow the basic idea of my system a positive score of 1.25 means the winner, takes 1.25 points per move on average from opponent.Remember that the mate 

    move "captures" all opponent pieces.

  • #1069

    Don`t try to" reinvent the Wheel"; stay with either the Elo (for simplicity) or the Glickman modified Elo system used by the USCF.

  • #1070
    Innocenttubebender wrote:

    Don`t try to" reinvent the Wheel"; stay with either the Elo (for simplicity) or the Glickman modified Elo system used by the USCF.


     Innocent more bending will spoil the tube.so appriciate ur understanding!

  • #1071

    Merry Christmas everyone!

  • #1072

    thanks, same to you and everyone

  • #1073

    Thnx ! same  to  everybody.Laughing

  • #1074

    anyone else get a little turned on by the bishop?

  • #1075
    chestonblumentahl wrote:

    anyone else get a little turned on by the bishop?


     Frown...unpredictable !!

  • #1076
    andreic wrote:

    I have an idea about how to rate players during a RR tournament., and a general extension in mind.

    I believe a measure of the player strength relative to a certain game is given by the speed of the material gain. At the begining the material is even, and at the end  there are two posibilities:

    1. The game is a draw(any chess rule leading to a draw) .  

    No one loses both sides keeps its armies for a feature battle. In this case the game score is given by

    (material1 - material2)/(number_of_game_moves). One of the sides will have a positive score , while the other will have the same absolute score but with the sign changed.

    2. The game ends in mate. The side which loses the game is considered to lose all  the material in the end, as the soldiers cannot fight without their king.

    The score will be for the winner: 

    1.material_of_the_winner_at_last_move/number_of_game_moves

    And for the loser will be 

     (- material_of_the_winner_at_last_move)/number_of_game_moves.

    At a RR tournament is sufficient to add the score for every game for every player just like that.

    If a player competes in different tournaments we must take into account the adversary strength, and the player ranking  is computed different.

    The player strength is the average  of the cumulated game scores.

    Suppose the players strengths are s1 and s2,number of games played so far are n1 and n2, and player 1 has a positive game result: r( a draw does not need to be a zero result).

    Then compute

                        s1 =  (s1*n1+(s2/(s1+s2))*r)/(n1+1);

                        n1=n1+1;

                        s2=(s2*n2-(s2/(s1+s2))*r)/(n2+1);

                        n2=n2+1; 

    A simple numerical example s1=0.5 s2=0.26  n1=10 ; n2=25; r=1.25

     New stregths:

      s1= (0.5*10 + (0.26/0.76)*1.25)/11 = 0.49

      s2= (0.26*25 - (0.26/0.76)*1.25)/26 =0.23

    Also the probability the player 1 wins the player 2 is computed like (s1/s1+s2).

    Before the game p=65%; after the game p=68%.

    The interpretation of score 1.25:

    If the number of moves in current game was 30 , it means the winner had 30*1.25 in material at the last move.

    I will apreciate some feedback and how can we test this. 

     

    Andrei from Romania


     Laughing appriciate ur Romanian formulae!! Wish u good luck % Happy New Year!

  • #1077

    Thanks.  A good year for every one.

  • #1078
    andreic wrote:

    Thanks.  A good year for every one.


     Smilewish the same to u & all in Chess.com !!

  • #1079
    [COMMENT DELETED]
  • #1080

    "points" is an artificial concept - why not just throw in the towel and

    have Houdini assign the ratings or play both sides for that matter?

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