Chess will never be solved, here's why

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Avatar of Hightider
Optimissed hat geschrieben:

What is solved?

Many things. How to make alcohol. Every possible move and combination in Checkers. Global communication networks have a solution, too... 
Lots of things. 
So you have to be a little more specific.

Avatar of playerafar
Hightider wrote:
Optimissed hat geschrieben:

What is solved?

Many things. How to make alcohol. Every possible move and combination in Checkers. Global communication networks have a solution, too... 
Lots of things. 
So you have to be a little more specific.

the 'what is solved?' question by Roger (Optimissed) apparently pertains to the previous page of this forum - page number 1055 - post #21,100 ...
chess.com pages are laid out in 20 posts per page - 
but that might not always be the case apparently with particular devices or settings or if one is using 'the app' - 
I don't claim to know because I don't use my phone for this website.
But many times people using phone/app have indicated the display is different.
The point is the bottom posts of the previous page don't show necessarily show up right away.
Also - there's settings as to most recent first - most recent last and so on.

Avatar of zborg

And the mystery continues? Or just the mindless keystrokes instead?

Avatar of playerafar

Which mystery?
There are many mysteries.
And - uh oh - its not A or B.

Avatar of Just_an_average_player136
Optimissed wrote:

What is solved?

"Solved" would mean finding an explanation/answer to a problem

Avatar of playerafar
RoadOcean wrote:

chess will be solved

that was the 'trigger' post a few posts ago.

Avatar of Hightider
playerafar hat geschrieben:
Hightider wrote:
Optimissed hat geschrieben:

What is solved?

Many things. How to make alcohol. Every possible move and combination in Checkers. Global communication networks have a solution, too... 
Lots of things. 
So you have to be a little more specific.

the 'what is solved?' question by Roger (Optimissed) apparently pertains to the previous page of this forum - page number 1055 - post #21,100 ...
chess.com pages are laid out in 20 posts per page - 
but that might not always be the case apparently with particular devices or settings or if one is using 'the app' - 
I don't claim to know because I don't use my phone for this website.
But many times people using phone/app have indicated the display is different.
The point is the bottom posts of the previous page don't show necessarily show up right away.
Also - there's settings as to most recent first - most recent last and so on.

If you are referencing to this reply https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/chess-will-never-be-solved-heres-why?page=1055#comment-121991538Then I just want to point out, that he said "Will be solved" not "Is solved".

All this verbose bulldoodoo and you can't even get a basic reply right lmao

Avatar of playerafar
Hightider wrote:
playerafar hat geschrieben:
Hightider wrote:
Optimissed hat geschrieben:

What is solved?

Many things. How to make alcohol. Every possible move and combination in Checkers. Global communication networks have a solution, too... 
Lots of things. 
So you have to be a little more specific.

the 'what is solved?' question by Roger (Optimissed) apparently pertains to the previous page of this forum - page number 1055 - post #21,100 ...
chess.com pages are laid out in 20 posts per page - 
but that might not always be the case apparently with particular devices or settings or if one is using 'the app' - 
I don't claim to know because I don't use my phone for this website.
But many times people using phone/app have indicated the display is different.
The point is the bottom posts of the previous page don't show necessarily show up right away.
Also - there's settings as to most recent first - most recent last and so on.

If you are referencing to this reply https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/chess-will-never-be-solved-heres-why?page=1055#comment-121991538Then I just want to point out, that he said "Will be solved" not "Is solved".

All this verbose bulldoodoo and you can't even get a basic reply right lmao

I gave a post number from the previous page.
And the forum has over 20,000 posts making quite a 'verbose'.
happy

Avatar of Hightider
playerafar hat geschrieben:
Hightider wrote:
playerafar hat geschrieben:
Hightider wrote:
Optimissed hat geschrieben:

What is solved?

Many things. How to make alcohol. Every possible move and combination in Checkers. Global communication networks have a solution, too... 
Lots of things. 
So you have to be a little more specific.

the 'what is solved?' question by Roger (Optimissed) apparently pertains to the previous page of this forum - page number 1055 - post #21,100 ...
chess.com pages are laid out in 20 posts per page - 
but that might not always be the case apparently with particular devices or settings or if one is using 'the app' - 
I don't claim to know because I don't use my phone for this website.
But many times people using phone/app have indicated the display is different.
The point is the bottom posts of the previous page don't show necessarily show up right away.
Also - there's settings as to most recent first - most recent last and so on.

If you are referencing to this reply https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/chess-will-never-be-solved-heres-why?page=1055#comment-121991538Then I just want to point out, that he said "Will be solved" not "Is solved".

All this verbose bulldoodoo and you can't even get a basic reply right lmao

I gave a post number from the previous page.
And the forum has over 20,000 posts making quite a 'verbose'.

I know you did. Hence why I clarified something, and then answered to it. You seemingly ignore the topic now and only focus on refuting verbose accusations. Are you aware that you are a troll?

Avatar of playerafar

'I know you did' - and then forgets.
Didn't seem to understand about previous pages.
Looks like another one of those 'post around' situations.

Avatar of playerafar
Optimissed wrote:

What is solved?

How to build an internal combustion engine.
Unsolved: practical use of nuclear fusion to produce electricity.

Avatar of Optimissed
Hightider wrote:
Optimissed hat geschrieben:

What is solved?

Many things. How to make alcohol. Every possible move and combination in Checkers. Global communication networks have a solution, too... 
Lots of things. 
So you have to be a little more specific.

OK. With regard to chess, what does solved mean?

Avatar of Optimissed
Hightider wrote:
playerafar hat geschrieben:
Hightider wrote:
playerafar hat geschrieben:
Hightider wrote:
Optimissed hat geschrieben:

What is solved?

Many things. How to make alcohol. Every possible move and combination in Checkers. Global communication networks have a solution, too... 
Lots of things. 
So you have to be a little more specific.

the 'what is solved?' question by Roger (Optimissed) apparently pertains to the previous page of this forum - page number 1055 - post #21,100 ...
chess.com pages are laid out in 20 posts per page - 
but that might not always be the case apparently with particular devices or settings or if one is using 'the app' - 
I don't claim to know because I don't use my phone for this website.
But many times people using phone/app have indicated the display is different.
The point is the bottom posts of the previous page don't show necessarily show up right away.
Also - there's settings as to most recent first - most recent last and so on.

If you are referencing to this reply https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/chess-will-never-be-solved-heres-why?page=1055#comment-121991538Then I just want to point out, that he said "Will be solved" not "Is solved".

All this verbose bulldoodoo and you can't even get a basic reply right lmao

I gave a post number from the previous page.
And the forum has over 20,000 posts making quite a 'verbose'.

I know you did. Hence why I clarified something, and then answered to it. You seemingly ignore the topic now and only focus on refuting verbose accusations. Are you aware that you are a troll?

He's somewhat chameleon-like and is rapidly diffusing into a normal person. Give the lad time!

Avatar of Hightider
Optimissed hat geschrieben:
Hightider wrote:
Optimissed hat geschrieben:

What is solved?

Many things. How to make alcohol. Every possible move and combination in Checkers. Global communication networks have a solution, too... 
Lots of things. 
So you have to be a little more specific.

OK. With regard to chess, what does solved mean?

Lad aside and BTT:

"Solved" means every possible position has a known perfect response without ever losing due to optimal play.

But we don't know the perfect moves yet. Chess isn't solved because of that. Current engines don't know perfect moves. They calculate millions of positions and pick the "best" based on evaluation, but they can't see every possibility to the end of the game. There are simply too many variations (more than atoms in the universe). That's why top engines still lose to each other.

Chess will be "solved" when we can prove the result of perfect play from the starting position (win for white, win for black, or draw) and demonstrate the exact moves to achieve it. Until then, even the strongest engines are just incredibly good approximations, better than any human ever could be, but still not perfect.
Once perfect = chess solved. 
Until that day, it's unsolved. 
Checkers, Tic-Tac-Toe, etc, are much simpler games with way fewer possibilities. So for computers it was a lot easier to solve those games. Those games are deemed "solved".

Avatar of Hightider
Optimissed hat geschrieben:
Hightider wrote:
playerafar hat geschrieben:
Hightider wrote:
playerafar hat geschrieben:
Hightider wrote:
Optimissed hat geschrieben:

What is solved?

Many things. How to make alcohol. Every possible move and combination in Checkers. Global communication networks have a solution, too... 
Lots of things. 
So you have to be a little more specific.

the 'what is solved?' question by Roger (Optimissed) apparently pertains to the previous page of this forum - page number 1055 - post #21,100 ...
chess.com pages are laid out in 20 posts per page - 
but that might not always be the case apparently with particular devices or settings or if one is using 'the app' - 
I don't claim to know because I don't use my phone for this website.
But many times people using phone/app have indicated the display is different.
The point is the bottom posts of the previous page don't show necessarily show up right away.
Also - there's settings as to most recent first - most recent last and so on.

If you are referencing to this reply https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/chess-will-never-be-solved-heres-why?page=1055#comment-121991538Then I just want to point out, that he said "Will be solved" not "Is solved".

All this verbose bulldoodoo and you can't even get a basic reply right lmao

I gave a post number from the previous page.
And the forum has over 20,000 posts making quite a 'verbose'.

I know you did. Hence why I clarified something, and then answered to it. You seemingly ignore the topic now and only focus on refuting verbose accusations. Are you aware that you are a troll?

He's somewhat chameleon-like and is rapidly diffusing into a normal person. Give the lad time!

Damn humanoid reptilians clone sleeper agents! AI in human form, but on troll mode.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

He's somewhat chameleon-like and is rapidly diffusing into a normal person. Give the lad time!

A telling admission.

Avatar of OctopusOnSteroids
Hightider wrote:
Optimissed hat geschrieben:
Hightider wrote:
Optimissed hat geschrieben:

What is solved?

Many things. How to make alcohol. Every possible move and combination in Checkers. Global communication networks have a solution, too... 
Lots of things. 
So you have to be a little more specific.

OK. With regard to chess, what does solved mean?

Lad aside and BTT:

"Solved" means every possible position has a known perfect response without ever losing due to optimal play.

But we don't know the perfect moves yet. Chess isn't solved because of that. Current engines don't know perfect moves. They calculate millions of positions and pick the "best" based on evaluation, but they can't see every possibility to the end of the game. There are simply too many variations (more than atoms in the universe). That's why top engines still lose to each other.

Chess will be "solved" when we can prove the result of perfect play from the starting position (win for white, win for black, or draw) and demonstrate the exact moves to achieve it. Until then, even the strongest engines are just incredibly good approximations, better than any human ever could be, but still not perfect.
Once perfect = chess solved. 
Until that day, it's unsolved. 
Checkers, Tic-Tac-Toe, etc, are much simpler games with way fewer possibilities. So for computers it was a lot easier to solve those games. Those games are deemed "solved".

We cant exactly rule out having a perfect solution for every position and still losing by force due to opposing optimal play lol

Avatar of Optimissed
Hightider wrote:
Optimissed hat geschrieben:
Hightider wrote:
Optimissed hat geschrieben:

What is solved?

Many things. How to make alcohol. Every possible move and combination in Checkers. Global communication networks have a solution, too... 
Lots of things. 
So you have to be a little more specific.

OK. With regard to chess, what does solved mean?

Lad aside and BTT:

"Solved" means every possible position has a known perfect response without ever losing due to optimal play.

But we don't know the perfect moves yet. Chess isn't solved because of that. Current engines don't know perfect moves. They calculate millions of positions and pick the "best" based on evaluation, but they can't see every possibility to the end of the game. There are simply too many variations (more than atoms in the universe). That's why top engines still lose to each other.

Chess will be "solved" when we can prove the result of perfect play from the starting position (win for white, win for black, or draw) and demonstrate the exact moves to achieve it. Until then, even the strongest engines are just incredibly good approximations, better than any human ever could be, but still not perfect.
Once perfect = chess solved. 
Until that day, it's unsolved. 
Checkers, Tic-Tac-Toe, etc, are much simpler games with way fewer possibilities. So for computers it was a lot easier to solve those games. Those games are deemed "solved".

Yes, so it's meaningless. There's no possible use for chess being "solved". Incidentally, obviously "what is solved?" is in relation to the comment preceding that question.

Avatar of Optimissed
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

He's somewhat chameleon-like and is rapidly diffusing into a normal person. Give the lad time!

A telling admission.

Why an admission? Why is it telling? The answers to this and other questions will be revealed when we perfect drivelvision. Invest in drivelvision now! You know it makes no sense.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

He's somewhat chameleon-like and is rapidly diffusing into a normal person. Give the lad time!

A telling admission.

Why an admission? Why is it telling? The answers to this and other questions will be revealed when we perfect drivelvision. Invest in drivelvision now! You know it makes no sense.

...and a telling deflection attempt.