"where only the kings are left standing"
Just so you know, the following positions are drawn:
"where only the kings are left standing"
Just so you know, the following positions are drawn:
One of my pet peeves in chess is a game that goes 15 or 20 moves and then is agreed as a draw. If I understand correctly, drawn positions are ones where, with best play, only the kings would be left standing. Why not make the players play it out and then call it a draw? This would avoid short draws in tournaments where draws could be arranged for cheating.
This doesn't do away with agreed draws, it just changes the way in which they're enacted.
As a student of the game I never draw because I want to learn the endgame. This might be ridiculous for a higher rated player than me. But for me it is a learning opportunity. So I continue playing till I am checkmated!
@orangehonda - position one would end in stalemate with best play and position two would end with the fifty-move rule. Understood. I'm sorry for my poor choice of wording. I should have included "or one of the other drawn positions would be reached (repitition of position, 50 moves without a pawn capture, or stalemate). The point is that instead of agreeing to a draw on move 17 because it looks like a drawn position, why not keep playing until one of the conditions for a draw are reached.
@TheGrobe - That's true, I guess the players could just play a known game if they really need a draw.
@NM tonydal - Thank you for your fantastic insight and analysis, Captain Obvious. You really helped to clear up my understanding.
Could you explain why there is such thing as an "agreed" draw after only 12 to 15 moves? Thank you.
@Puroi - Thank you for posting an example, but could you explain why this is a drawn position. Inquiring patzers want to know.
@NM tonydal - Sir! Yes, Sir! Obviously I should have taken a different approach with all the intellectual giants on this site. My apologies. Take 2: Being the patzer that I am, could some kind soul please explain to me how one comes to determine that a position after 12 - 15 moves is a drawn position? Take Puroi's example above for instance. I honestly don't understand how that is a draw. Thank you.
These are the games I've recently drawn. I'm not sure I did the right thing with the second one, but that's in the past now.
@orangehonda - position one would end in stalemate with best play and position two would end with the fifty-move rule. Understood. I'm sorry for my poor choice of wording. I should have included "or one of the other drawn positions would be reached (repitition of position, 50 moves without a pawn capture, or stalemate). The point is that instead of agreeing to a draw on move 17 because it looks like a drawn position, why not keep playing until one of the conditions for a draw are reached.
Hmm, I'm not so sure this solution would change the game in the way you might think. For example two players who want to draw on move 17 would instead draw on move 19 with a threefold repetition... it seems like that would be just as disappointing.
Other rules are hard to make practical because where do you draw the line between a reasonable evaluation of a draw and a position that still has fight left in it. Not all TDs or arbiters can have a top level understanding of positions as to make these kinds of calls. So while the system we have right now isn't perfect, it's the best we've yet to come up with and I don't think it's likely to change soon.
Maybe because the position is drawn?
The traxler says hi:
Wow, the 2nd game I've never seen before is pretty nuts... was this a composed game passed off as a real match? I can't quite imagine that really happening over the board.
So when two GMs draw early in a game, it is always a legitimate draw?
Well... not always. With an early draw sometimes it's because both want more rest on that round to save energy for future opponent's, but I'd say the great majority of GM draws in general are legitimate it's these small percentage of cases that get people worked up.
If me and someone else wanted a draw because we were tired or whatever, I wouldn't mind an early draw. It just shows a temporary lack of willpower, seeing as blunders have been avoided for 20 moves you just don't feel like trying this one time (it happens sometimes) and what if he doesn't either?
drawing a match has become utterly "LAUGHABLE" at best ,..
every draw with thee exception of one that I've seen , just from viewing other players matches have all been "PLAYABLE" ,...
just my opinion but the word "LOSS" scares ppl , so rather than playing a match through they offer up a draw ,...an again its "SICKENING" from my stand point , given the matches I've opened up have all had clear winners or winning positions ,..
Threenailz, I have also seen some games where GMs agreed to a draw on move 11...believe it or not. This is why top level tournaments have adopted rules to prevent these early draws...like the "Sofia Rules"...we can critizise Topalov for many things...but he is one of the few GMs who keep on fighting for a result, when others would have taken a quick draw...this is exactly why the current world chess championship is so exciting.
I drawn position is somewhat of a subjective position...the main thing is that both players perceive it that way. I am not certain if there are any clear rules to indicate when a position can be considered drawn.
raviatm - I presume you are referring to the possibility of 19. Kb5. However, after 19...Ba6+, if 20. Ka4, then Black will respond with Bc4 and then White cannot prevent b5++.
One of my pet peeves in chess is a game that goes 15 or 20 moves and then is agreed as a draw. If I understand correctly, drawn positions are ones where, with best play, only the kings would be left standing. Why not make the players play it out and then call it a draw? This would avoid short draws in tournaments where draws could be arranged for cheating.