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How I've been cheated by Vietnam 8th HDBank cup chess tournament organizers

  • #1

    Okay, in general I don't like to complain about the things but I don't like being fraud by the organizers.

    I think this post could serve as a general guideline for others who might decide to play in this tournament.

     

    So, I played in HDB Bank tournament between 9-16 of March. In challenger's section.

    Could talk a lot about the tournament itself but let's go to to main part. I got 6.5 point out of 9.

    OK result, got 8th place.

    Result link:

     http://www.chess-results.com/tnr326367.aspx?lan=1&art=1&rd=9&flag=30

     As per regulations: 6 places are paid, and in cases of points tie prizes are shared. 

    Regulation link;

    https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2017/Tournaments/HDBank_2018_regulations_English.pdf

    Important point, each player can receive only the one highest prize. Clearly written there.

     

    So what's happen first 6 places had 7 points. Among them was one girl, technically she goes for higher women prize. so 7-11(9th goes for 2nd women prize) should share 6th place prize.

    Correct me if I'm wrong?

     

    To my surprize organizers decided not to give 6th place money, but just share 6th place prize among top 5 places. When I noticed that I informed chief arbiter, who understood that it is wrong, he spoke with some organizers and they said will sort this, at the end they didn't sort anything and they main arguments were like "oh there are so many of you on 6.5 points, need to share money" or that "It doesn't look nice on paper", or that "girl's rank was higher, agree on that but they didn't pay her for 6h prize.

     

    Just to note, 6th place money wouldn't change my life, just feel sad somehow inside when you are entitled for something by the chess rules, but you don't get "it doesn't look nice on the paper".

     

    Any comments on that are welcome.

  • #2

    How much you were supposed to have? 

  • #3
    freeline đã viết:

    How much you were supposed to have? 

     

    250$ / 4 = 62,5$

     

    @Trionyx:  I translated your post into Vietnamese and posted in a Vietnam chess group on Facebook.  I hope that organizers will read it and will contact you.

  • #4

    The regulation doesn't claim that if the sixth prize is not given to the person at the sixth place, it would be transferred to the person at the seventh place.

    I understand that other competitions USUALLY give the prize to number 7, but it is not necessarily always the case, is it?

    I know you're a bit frustrated right now, but according to the official regulation, the organizer didn't do anything wrong or cheat anyone. However, they'd better explain and make it clear for you. But maybe, just maybe, it's because of the communication problem through English?

    Disclaimer: I'm just an ordinary chess player from Vietnam, not related to any of the organizers.

  • #5

    Caruri: Thank you, appreciate your help.

  • #6

    Haonhien: Agree you can say that it wasn't written directly like that.

    Probably that's why I wrote to find if anytime it happened differently?

    From my experience it is pretty automatic, as one qualifies for the different prize then he is not eligible for the same category prize, can chose only one. At least I never had it different way.

    it is written in regulations  that person who qualifies for several prizes should choose highest one.

    So that means he/she not eligible for another one, pretty clear for me.

    If you are not giving it the next person whom then you can give it though?

     

    I spoke with many chess friends, so far nobody told me that 7 shouldn't get it here, I think it is a general logic here. 

     

    Well according official regulations there are 6 top places paid and 3 women places.

    Organizer paid 5 places and 3 women. 6th place just been erased, I'm sorry I cant it call differently then cheating. 

     

    Ok about explanation. once I saw that it is like that, I spoke with chief arbiter who said "yes it should be like this", then he helped me to find some org committee member, who initially agreed, said "yes, it makes sense" although she wasn't happy that will have to recount everything and split again, change all the envelopes. It happen before closing ceremony, so I was quite positive about that, after closing ceremony there was no change done, so I spoke with org member again, she said organizer decided not to change and that's it.

      

  • #7

    u r probably right, but it is not such a big deal in my opinion. It would had been big deal, if they had kept the money.

  • #8

    I understand that their solution is not the best, and it would be nice if they split the way you proposed. However, logically, the regulation was still followed; and they didn't keep the money, they just split it to other players.

    Maybe it's not the best solution, and the way they handled it made us feel weird, but I could say that they didn't mean to cheat: they didn't get any money after all.

  • #9

    @trionyx: after reading the translation of your post, one officer of Vietnam Chess Federation said that organizers will contact you by e-mail to explain all things concerning your case.

  • #10

    dk-Ltd: Yes agree, they didn't keep the money. Good point.

  • #11

    Haonhien: I can understand, maybe it is just the way they handled the things, maybe there was really no time or chance to change it. 

    The thing which made me furious that they first admitted mistake then just decided to ignore me. Org committee woman didn't try to appologize about it ,or explain reason in a constructive , professional way

     

    Agree, maybe they didn't mean to cheat, but  as such thing happened, there should be a clear explanation. 

     

  • #12

    Caruri:Thank you, looking forward to it.

    Just to note, I sent them email 2 days ago, so far without any response.

  • #13

    I read the regulations and the game placement, and I think Trionyx is definitely right based on what he posted. Should have been: the lady in 6th gets the women's prize of $500 and 7th place gets bumped up one place to 6th and should get $250......for 6th best in challenger category.

  • #14

    @trionyx: Agreed about that. I admit that there are better ways to handle the situation.

  • #15
    universityofpawns wrote:

    I read the regulations and the game placement, and I think Trionyx is definitely right based on what he posted. Should have been: the lady in 6th gets the women's prize of $500 and 7th place gets bumped up one place to 6th and should get $250......for 6th best in challenger category.

     

    No, not really. Note that our OP is 8th place, and above him there was another Vietnamese guy at 6.5. So if we go by your reasoning, then the Vietnamese guy will become 6th (after taking out the girl) and get the $250. Our OP still gets nothing.

    I think in terms of complaining, the guy at 7th has a bit more of a grievance to vent. Our OP's grievance is a bit on the technicality side, since it is equivalent to the 11th guy saying "Hey, after the girl is out, I'm on the same number of points as the 6th guy, so where is my money". It is a technicality alright, but also one that people tend not to make because, let's face it, you're not among the 6 people who are ranked on top of this event.

    Still, the organizer made a mess of it, for sure. At the very least they should have made a clear explanation, if not distribute the money out the way it should have been. It makes no difference to them (the organizer) anyway, since it's still money paying out. To someone in the top 3-4, having another $80 doesn't mean that much, but it does mean a big difference to the 7th-11th guys to have $60 instead of $0. It'll put a smile on their face for sure. Why the organizer chose to do what they did, and not coming back with a clear explanation can only be judged as somewhat incompetent and condescending behavior.

    (But truth be told, chess organizers, and chess players in general, tend to be slightly off that way. YMMV, but that's what I think).

  • #16

     pdrive: Correct there is one guy in front of me. 

     

    I would agree with you, but copy from regulations says:

    3.2. Cash prizes shall be shared equally among tied players.

    Moneywise 2-5 places just received equal shares. 

     

    But yeah, technically 7-11 places all should be equally unhappy here(except 9th place as it goes for women second place).

    In terms of 7th place, well here he should as well be unhappy about not getting anything during the closing ceremony, but it is another story.

     

    Yeah, agree about the mess and smiles on the face.

     

     

     

     

     

     

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