We're talking about statistics across the entire set, not individual cases. I think maybe your point is misplaced, especially in terms of materiality to LordNazgul's point.
International Women's Day, congratulations!!!
Sort:
So if it doesn't fix everyone's ails it's not a worthwhile cause?
ciljettu wrote:
trysts wrote:
Jesus, ciljettu, you woke up today and decided to be a moron.
You can keep on insulting me trysts if you have nothing better to say. I'm not going to fight you. If you want to offer a reasoned counterargument, on the other hand, I am happy to debate.
Sure. Men are physically quite a bit stronger than us. Rape occurs simply because we don't want to have sex with you. You don't care that we don't want to have sex with you. You hold us down, and rape us. After the act is over, we can report it. When we do, there is no evidence of the penetration being non-consensual. We are left alone with our claims, just like you would be left alone in your claims of being raped in a prison.
You're not smart, nor wise in your criticism of rape claims. You're just ignorant.
Men have been put in jail for all kinds of false claims. Why you choose rape, as your central concentration for injustice, makes me quite suspicious.
ciljettu wrote:
TheGrobe wrote:
So if it doesn't fix everyone's ails it's not a worthwhile cause?
Well ok, I suppose it could still be worthwile, but then how about a men's day too? Better still, let us have a "Stop ALL Human Suffering Day"!
The answer I get from feminists is that every day is men's day. Trying telling that to the miner who risks his life and sacrifices his health so that you can heat your home.
Ok then, let's proclaim this international miners' and also privileged middle class men who want credit day.
ciljettu wrote:
trysts wrote:
Men have been put in jail for all kinds of false claims. Why you choose rape, as your central concentration for injustice, makes me quite suspicious.
There is nothing to be suspicious of. This is a thread about gender issues, and rape is therefore relevant because it has gendered implications. Rape is a problem that predominantly affects women, and false rape accusations are a problem that predominantly affect men. Both demographics deserve our empathy when they encounter these injustices.
No, it's not a thread about gender issues, it's a thread about marketing to genders. Your little joke about being sprayed with vin/oil, being like a false claim of rape, was stupid. It was stupid because rape is not funny. Your claims of men, being even slightly close to women in being raped, is stupid. Women are being raped as we speak. It is similar in comparison, with animals being abused. Your "feelings" of injustice for men being raped, or women making false accusations of rape, are very telling to me. You seem to feel "empathy", like you have an agenda.
ciljettu wrote:
trysts wrote:
ciljettu wrote:
trysts wrote:
Men have been put in jail for all kinds of false claims. Why you choose rape, as your central concentration for injustice, makes me quite suspicious.
There is nothing to be suspicious of. This is a thread about gender issues, and rape is therefore relevant because it has gendered implications. Rape is a problem that predominantly affects women, and false rape accusations are a problem that predominantly affect men. Both demographics deserve our empathy when they encounter these injustices.
No, it's not a thread about gender issues, it's a thread about marketing to genders. Your little joke about being sprayed with vin/oil, being like a false claim of rape, was stupid. It was stupid because rape is not funny. Your claims of men, being even slightly close to women in being raped, is stupid. Women are being raped as we speak. It is similar in comparison, with animals being abused. Your "feelings" of injustice for men being raped, or women making false accusations of rape, are very telling to me. You seem to feel "empathy", like you have an agenda.
I never claimed that men are close to women in being raped. It is true that many more victims are women, but male rape in prisons is quite a significant problem and men are being raped as we speak too. Apart from that, these things are not simply a question of numbers. Every individual victim, regardless of gender or other attributes, deserves empathy.
Murder is not a laughing matter, but there are plenty of jokes about murder too. I remember plenty of people laughing at violent castration too, most recently Sharon Osbourne in a live tv show. Of course everyone accepts dark humour much more readily when it is not directed at his ilk.
If a guy had come here posting about throwing water/vinegar on women for fun, I bet your reaction would have been quite different.
No. My reaction to you comparing it to rape in order to demean women, would have been the same. Of all the horrible things going on in the world, I would have figured that false rape claims would have been low on the list. That is, unless I was so upset about "false rape claims", that it was central to my thought. If that is the case with you, then I'm sorry you feel that way. It's just ignorant, and perhaps vengeful.
ciljettu wrote:
Well funny that you consider "false rape claims" to be low on the list of problems yet get so upset about rape. I suppose if you husband/brother/son was falsely accused you might think differently. I think that it is you that is being selective with your empathy. I have stated plenty of times, and I repeat here, that both rape and false rape claims are serious issues.
And my joke was not an attempt to "demean women." It was an offhand comment in response to a silly joke. Apologies if some people found it too provocative.
You seem to care a lot about men being imprisoned under false accussations of raping women. It's an interesting cause.
ciljettu wrote:
trysts wrote:
ciljettu wrote:
Well funny that you consider "false rape claims" to be low on the list of problems yet get so upset about rape. I suppose if you husband/brother/son was falsely accused you might think differently. I think that it is you that is being selective with your empathy. I have stated plenty of times, and I repeat here, that both rape and false rape claims are serious issues.
And my joke was not an attempt to "demean women." It was an offhand comment in response to a silly joke. Apologies if some people found it too provocative.
You seem to care a lot about men being imprisoned under false accussations of raping women. It's an interesting cause.
Yes I do care about it and I also care about genuine rape. I have personally known victims of both instances, although they were not very close to me, and I know that both can be devastating.
Genius, do you remember when LordNazgul posted that six percent of rape cases result in conviction? Then he said "6 percent"? Let me try to get through to you again, SIX PERCENT. Here, I'll do it again: 6%. Instead of being full of shit, you should try to empathize with the 94% of rape claims that are laughed at.
ciljettu wrote:
trysts wrote:
ciljettu wrote:
trysts wrote:
ciljettu wrote:
Well funny that you consider "false rape claims" to be low on the list of problems yet get so upset about rape. I suppose if you husband/brother/son was falsely accused you might think differently. I think that it is you that is being selective with your empathy. I have stated plenty of times, and I repeat here, that both rape and false rape claims are serious issues.
And my joke was not an attempt to "demean women." It was an offhand comment in response to a silly joke. Apologies if some people found it too provocative.
You seem to care a lot about men being imprisoned under false accussations of raping women. It's an interesting cause.
Yes I do care about it and I also care about genuine rape. I have personally known victims of both instances, although they were not very close to me, and I know that both can be devastating.
Genius, do you remember when LordNazgul posted that six percent of rape cases result in conviction? Then he said "6 percent"? Let me try to get through to you again, SIX PERCENT. Here, I'll do it again: 6%. Instead of being full of shit, you should try to empathize with the 94% of rape claims that are laughed at.
I see you are back to your ad hominem attacks. Never mind, I'll ignore those and deal with your arguments.
I know that rape has quite a low conviction rate and that is a problem. It is a very difficult crime to prove conclusively. Victims of rape deserve empathy and I am the first to acknowledge that.
A percentage of the 94% of cases that do not result in convictions are malicious. Again, false accusations are very difficult to prove.
Unfortunately, a percentage of the 6% of cases that actaully result in convictions are false too, and the chap deserves my empathy too.
Finally, suffering is not just an issue of numbers and percentages. Every person who suffers an injustice deserves compassion.
It's true that suffering should not be an issue of numbers. But, I know you have an agenda. Your agenda is to demean women. How do I know this?
Because you stated that, "often the victims of fabricated sexual harrassment" are men. Sexual harrassment is soooo constant, that women shut up about it. You're not a woman, so you're quite ignorant there.
You also said that men are missing out on jobs, because of some woman quota. Just look at the statistics that you are too sensitive to grasp. Women are quite under-represented in all fields.
Your agenda is clear to me.
ciljettu wrote:
No I have no agenda at all, apart from the fact that compassion should not depend on identity politics. However, feel free to try and read my mind.
Yes, women are most often the victims of sexual harassment, but it is also true that men are more often the victims of fabricated claims of sexual harassment. If I wanted to be churlish, I could say that since you're not a man, you're quite ignorant there. Once again, both groups of victims deserve compassion.
And yes, I think quotas for women often result on better qualified male candidates losing out on jobs, but I'm not sure why this is relevant to the rest of the discussion.
I'm sorry, I neglected your plea for men being accused of rape, when it was not rape. I based my neglect on women getting no justice at all when they claim rape when it was rape. My apologies. For the men accused of such a crime, without having actually committed the crime, I'm sorry.
You're just a sensitive fellow, ciljettu.
ciljettu wrote:
Funny you accuse me of being sensitive trysts. I am not the person who removes a friend from his list the minute he posts something that I do not agree with.
It depends on what they say, cilantro.
ciljettu wrote:
Well I stand by all that I have said and I am sorry if you consider my views incompatible with our friendship.
I don't like what you said. It's too familiar. It's too popular a notion for me to continuously accept it. It is as if someone from Iran were to post something about how much their government sucks. I would call him/her a jackass because people want to bomb Iran. I don't think posting some shit about how men are oppressed because other men in the position of power favour women, is very bright at all. I don't think that the nine guys that have been falsely accused of rape compares to the four hundred thousand women that have been raped. I think you posting that shit in this particular thread was some ego-boost to you. But on serious matters, I don't find your ego-boost to be anything more than unempathetic.
ciljettu wrote:
Well I can assure you that more than nine guys have been falsely accused of rape. And even if they were only nine, they would still be nine human beings. As i said before, suffering is not simply a question of numbers.
As for me posting here just as an ego-boost, I can assure you that this is not the case. But once again, I cannot stop you from reading my mind the way you see fit.
Well that's what language is for, reading minds.
I wasn't debating. I was telling you what I think.
Funny. I'm not very keen about your "thoughts"? For you, it was a matter of debating(and probably winning or losing that debate). For me, it was a matter of some jackass thinking this was the best thread to talk about the injustice to men being accused of rape, on International Women's Day. Hilarious!
Guess I was late to the party. So I'll just crack a bottle of ale and count my blessings, er lucky stars!
Pens won and I am totally smashed and I love you all DAMMIT WHEre IS THE HAPPY SMILEY oh here is it 
6 percent of rape charges in the UK result in conviction. I mean, its 6 percent.
What makes you think all those charges are genuine? One is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. Try and google False Rape Society and make up your own mind.
So 94% are frivolous accusations? Seems reasonable.