is it considered cheating if you use chess books in correspondence games?

catfishman_incel
has anyone tried this method? if so do you think its wrong, to use chess books?
notmtwain
catfishman_incel wrote:
has anyone tried this method? if so do you think its wrong, to use chess books?

No, the use of books, databases, etc. is allowed in correspondence chess. Engines and tablebases are not allowed.

blueemu
notmtwain wrote:

... the use of books, databases, etc. is allowed in correspondence chess. Engines and tablebases are not allowed.

Correct.

IronIC_U
This is something I’ve been wondering about. At what exact point did your opponent cross the line? I’ve advised a guy before while we were sitting on bar stools. Was that cheating?
blueemu
9497010838 wrote:
Was that cheating?

Yes. As penalty, you must hold this Pawn in your mouth for the rest of the day.

catfishman_incel

9497010838 wrote:

This is something I’ve been wondering about. At what exact point did your opponent cross the line? I’ve advised a guy before while we were sitting on bar stools. Was that cheating?

well you are getting advice from directly from grandmasters in the book, also its kind of like a cheat sheet for chess

congrandolor
catfishman_incel wrote:

 

9497010838 wrote:

This is something I’ve been wondering about. At what exact point did your opponent cross the line? I’ve advised a guy before while we were sitting on bar stools. Was that cheating?

well you are getting advice from directly from grandmasters in the book, also its kind of like a cheat sheet for chess

 

well, once you are in a middlegame you are on your own, books are only useful in the opening phase of the game

catfishman_incel

congrandolor wrote:

catfishman_incel wrote:

 

9497010838 wrote:

This is something I’ve been wondering about. At what exact point did your opponent cross the line? I’ve advised a guy before while we were sitting on bar stools. Was that cheating?

well you are getting advice from directly from grandmasters in the book, also its kind of like a cheat sheet for chess

 

well, once you are in a middlegame you are on your own, books are only useful in the opening phase of the game

not really, you can literally learn ideas from the books which gives the other players an advantage. in the past I have used this method to learn openings and het ideas. in the middle game phase you can get help also from other non engine computer programs, such as igor smirnov

verylate

It does seem like cheating at first sight, but it's not. Cheating occurs when you get help from someone (or something) deciding what move to play in a specific position. Very few chess books are all about one position. What opening books do is tell you what is generally known about a given opening (or group of). They summarise what is already "a secret all over the block".  Which is why a lot of sub-expert players manage to play the opening 8 to 14 moves quite well, but then fall apart as soon as the book line ends. 

catfishman_incel

verylate wrote:

It does seem like cheating at first sight, but it's not. Cheating occurs when you get help from someone (or something) deciding what move to play in a specific position. Very few chess books are all about one position. What opening books do is tell you what is generally known about a given opening (or group of). They summarise what is already "a secret all over the block".  Which is why a lot of sub-expert players manage to play the opening 8 to 14 moves quite well, but then fall apart as soon as the book line ends. 

well, thats true, but it takes time to actually understand what the book actually helps YOU do, you are legit getting help "per say"

Pulpofeira
catfishman_incel escribió:

 

congrandolor wrote:

 

catfishman_incel wrote:

 

9497010838 wrote:

This is something I’ve been wondering about. At what exact point did your opponent cross the line? I’ve advised a guy before while we were sitting on bar stools. Was that cheating?

well you are getting advice from directly from grandmasters in the book, also its kind of like a cheat sheet for chess

 

well, once you are in a middlegame you are on your own, books are only useful in the opening phase of the game

 

not really, you can literally learn ideas from the books which gives the other players an advantage. in the past I have used this method to learn openings and het ideas. in the middle game phase you can get help also from other non engine computer programs, such as igor smirnov

 

That's the point of correspondence chess.

IronIC_U
blueemu, with that comment, I think you are channeling the ghost of Najdorf.
verylate

What!?!? You saying I can actually learn from my mistakes? <doh!>

catfishman_incel

Pulpofeira wrote:

catfishman_incel escribió:

 

congrandolor wrote:

 

catfishman_incel wrote:

 

9497010838 wrote:

This is something I’ve been wondering about. At what exact point did your opponent cross the line? I’ve advised a guy before while we were sitting on bar stools. Was that cheating?

well you are getting advice from directly from grandmasters in the book, also its kind of like a cheat sheet for chess

 

well, once you are in a middlegame you are on your own, books are only useful in the opening phase of the game

 

not really, you can literally learn ideas from the books which gives the other players an advantage. in the past I have used this method to learn openings and het ideas. in the middle game phase you can get help also from other non engine computer programs, such as igor smirnov

 

That's the point of correspondence chess.

well, correspondence is slow chess, not many people utilize their time to analyze their games. its like being naruto using the kage bushin no jutsu, you are playing in a dozen or so correspondence games while effectively using the books to understand the games better.

JosiahLennox
9497010838 wrote:
This is something I’ve been wondering about. At what exact point did your opponent cross the line? I’ve advised a guy before while we were sitting on bar stools. Was that cheating?

Yes.  Quite blatant.  It's on him, though.  His game, his burden to follow the rules of fair play for its duration.

blueemu

As an example of the sort of thing that can be done (perfectly legally) in Correspondence Chess, this game of mine, played under Daily (CC) rules, was identical to Sznapik vs Ljangov, Sandomeirtz Poland, 1976 right up until Black's 28th move, at which point I played a novelty that I had prepared ahead of time.

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/game-showcase/a-heroic-defense-in-the-sicilian-najdorf-kids-dont-try-this-at-home

Check out the CAPS score:

... 99.4% accuracy.

IronIC_U
What if players check google about a particular opening in the first few moves of a game?
blueemu

What type of game? It's OK in Correspondence (Daily) chess. Not in live chess, though.

alain978

So that's why I win often playing the Grob opening or the Grob variation. Because there's so few books about the Grob!....

IronIC_U
Chess computer engines have determined the grob to be the worst first move of white. I is, however, highly successful in speed chess. I wouldn’t play it in daily games.