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Is King's Indian Defense now obsolete?

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JohnNapierSanDiego

It was a favorite of Fischer and Kasparov, but I was watching Agadamator recently and he said that Alphazero has pretty much decided King's Indian Defense is an outdated opening that isn't actually good... Truth to this?  Anyone heard similar things?  It definitely seems recently that Nimzo Indian Defense and Grunfeld have replaced it

YouEvenLiftBro

It has been posited (not proved) that the Queen's indian defence has been refuted through computer play. That may or may not be true ... in 10 years time we will have engines 100 times as powerful.

The King's indian defence is still sound.

Computer play and human play are different things. Theoretically the Pirc defence is borderline refuted at top levels, but I play against it all the time and win 75% of games. But I think the win-loss ratio mainly reflects that it is the players that choose a weak opening that are more likely to lose. Theoretically, the Pirc is holdable for a draw. 

 

 

 

TheNumberTwenty

Almost all hypermodern openings are more or less dubious, but only super GMs and engines can really prove that over the board. It seems The main problem with the KID is that white's queen side expansion is usually much faster and pressing than black's planned kingside attack.

JohnNapierSanDiego

more input! more opinions! feed the bear!

IronSteam1
JohnNapierSanDiego wrote:

It was a favorite of Fischer and Kasparov, but I was watching Agadamator recently and he said that Alphazero has pretty much decided King's Indian Defense is an outdated opening that isn't actually good... Truth to this?  Anyone heard similar things?  It definitely seems recently that Nimzo Indian Defense and Grunfeld have replaced it

Top players who have played the King's Indian Defense within the past few months:

Anish Giri, Richard Rapport, Alireza Firouzja, Jorden Van Foreest, Levon Aronian, Magnus Carlsen, Alexander Grischuk ...

If the KID truly were busted, these players would've abandoned it. But they haven't ...

... So it isn't ... thumbup

NervesofButter
JohnNapierSanDiego wrote:

It was a favorite of Fischer and Kasparov, but I was watching Agadamator recently and he said that Alphazero has pretty much decided King's Indian Defense is an outdated opening that isn't actually good... Truth to this?  Anyone heard similar things?  It definitely seems recently that Nimzo Indian Defense and Grunfeld have replaced it

As soon as i play someone rated 3900, and has all lines of the KID memorized I will keep this in mind.  Until then it makes no difference.

B1ZMARK

It’s not obsolete.

NervesofButter
B1ZMARK wrote:

It’s not obsolete.

Oh how wrong you are my friend.  If a chess engine says it obsolete then its obsolete.  NEVER question.  ALWAYS just believe whatever your spoon fed.  This applies to everyone from GM to 100 OTB players.

B1ZMARK
NervesofButter wrote:
B1ZMARK wrote:

It’s not obsolete.

Oh how wrong you are my friend.  If a chess engine says it obsolete then its obsolete.  NEVER question.  ALWAYS just believe whatever your spoon fed.  This applies to everyone from GM to 100 OTB players.

* You’re

Oh wow, how wrong I was! Clearly the engine must be right! It is almost as if they sometimes evaluate positions wrong

NervesofButter
B1ZMARK wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:
B1ZMARK wrote:

It’s not obsolete.

Oh how wrong you are my friend.  If a chess engine says it obsolete then its obsolete.  NEVER question.  ALWAYS just believe whatever your spoon fed.  This applies to everyone from GM to 100 OTB players.

* You’re

Oh wow, how wrong I was! Clearly the engine must be right! It is almost as if they sometimes evaluate positions wrong

Engines do evaluate positions wrong.  This is why we have opening databases and endgame table bases. 

B1ZMARK

Yes, I know

NervesofButter
B1ZMARK wrote:

Yes, I know

And I hope you caught my sarcasm in my post about always believing anything an engine tells you?

Optimissed

Complete nonsense. Computers don't "understand" openings.

B1ZMARK
NervesofButter wrote:
B1ZMARK wrote:

Yes, I know

And I hope you caught my sarcasm in my post about always believing anything an engine tells you?

Yeah I think we both got it

IronSteam1
B1ZMARK wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:
B1ZMARK wrote:

Yes, I know

And I hope you caught my sarcasm in my post about always believing anything an engine tells you?

Yeah I think we both got it

Draw by repetition. tongue

NervesofButter
B1ZMARK wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:
B1ZMARK wrote:

Yes, I know

And I hope you caught my sarcasm in my post about always believing anything an engine tells you?

Yeah I think we both got it

Just checking.