Is there any chance that a 1300 rated player can beat a 2700 rated player?


  • 7 days ago · Quote · #4461

    mdinnerspace

    It is called cheating. Wonder why in simuls a player plays only one color? It is to prevent this very thing.

  • 7 days ago · Quote · #4462

    TheronG12

    Maybe it's also so they can get twice as many people to pay for the same number of boards.

    But yeah, I don't think I'm actually going to try it. Since even if it worked, you would find some absurd reason for claiming that it doesn't prove anything tongue.png

  • 6 days ago · Quote · #4463

    Elubas

    "Since even if it worked, you would find some absurd reason for claiming that it doesn't prove anything tongue.png"

    Haha, yeah :) "Real" 2700s refuse to play 1300s anyway!

    I never thought about cheating in that way before. Rather than asking someone what should I play, you use information in the game to your advantage.

    Perhaps you're a cheater due to a certain kind of correspondence, since instead of using an engine, you're using someone else playing chess. On the other hand, in a lot of tournaments you can go to, there are just tables full of players, and you're often right next to one or two other players, who are playing someone else. There could be some chance that seeing the moves they play would help me with my game, like if they happened to be using the same opening as my opponent is (which could just happen by coincidence, not necessarily by collusion). But I would never think looking at someone else's game would get me into trouble! That's certainly never specified as a rule in any event I go to, to not look at a board a few inches away from you!

    But if I'm allowed to see boards of players next to me, then why not do it in the 2700 case?

    I don't know. I hear warnings about using engines, your cell phone going off, but nothing about this. Maybe somewhere buried in the rules this is addressed, but I don't know.

  • 6 days ago · Quote · #4464

    DjonniDerevnja

    There are good reasons for the 2700 to play against 1300s on the internet or maybe on the beach. It might be relaxing. Every game they play against masters is vary hard and exhausting fights. Even a 2700 might want to play some games  only for fun.

    It might be a good way to play you down after a hard match.

    Other sportsmen, like runners, often goes for a very slow jog after the race.

  • 6 days ago · Quote · #4465

    Elubas

    "Every game they play against masters is vary hard and exhausting fights."

    Games against 2200s are probably very easy for them.

  • 19 hours ago · Quote · #4466

    DjonniDerevnja

    Elubas wrote:

    "Every game they play against masters is vary hard and exhausting fights."

    Games against 2200s are probably very easy for them.

    No, they must fight hard to win them. Andreas Garberg Tryggestad is between 2100 and 2200, he played draw against both GMs he met in Arendal Grand Prix (Lie and Hammer). I think it was the Andreas draw that dragged Hammer below 2700.

  • 18 hours ago · Quote · #4467

    Lindstad

    Simen Agdestein, who was a childhood trainee to Carlsen, Hammer so on..

    He told on TV he could loose to everyone. He was a Norwegian champion for many years..

  • 10 hours ago · Quote · #4468

    Elubas

    DjonniDerevnja wrote:
    Elubas wrote:

    "Every game they play against masters is vary hard and exhausting fights."

    Games against 2200s are probably very easy for them.

    No, they must fight hard to win them. Andreas Garberg Tryggestad is between 2100 and 2200, he played draw against both GMs he met in Arendal Grand Prix (Lie and Hammer). I think it was the Andreas draw that dragged Hammer below 2700.

    But those are probably exceptions. If all it took was a lazy day for a GM to lose all his rating points, it would happen quite frequently, and soon they wouldn't have such a rating advantage in the first place (since their performance wouldn't reflect it).

    Probably the 2100 will just give an easy positional edge for the GM, and the GM will just safely apply pressure until the 2100 misses some tactic, allowing either an immediate win or a straightforward endgame to finish off.

    They still have to be awake, obviously. If I'm just not paying attention then of course I could just hang a piece to a 1400 or something. But I know how much attention I need to pay to avoid something silly like that. Strong, experienced chess players know how to control such insanity when they are playing chess.

  • 10 hours ago · Quote · #4469

    Elubas

    So I would say, yes, you are underestimating just how strong 2700s are. Masters are great, fantastic at chess, but they are incredibly weak compared to 2700s -- just total patzers. And that just goes to show how good the top really is, that they can make fantastic players look so weak and clueless.

  • 9 hours ago · Quote · #4470

    DjonniDerevnja

    Elubas wrote:

    So I would say, yes, you are underestimating just how strong 2700s are. Masters are great, fantastic at chess, but they are incredibly weak compared to 2700s -- just total patzers. And that just goes to show how good the top really is, that they can make fantastic players look so weak and clueless.

    What do you think makes a 2700 so strong? Maybe its positional understanding? But its more to it. I am talking about winner instinct , calculation and hard work.

    GM Torbjørn Ringdal Hansen is no 2700, but he can perform at 2700 in some tournaments.I truly admire his understanding of chess, and have went to one of his lectures. His knowledge isnt enough, in addition to that he calculates. Hard, long and heavy. He tries to calculate one move further than his opponent, and does beat them 2200s. But the work he puts in is heavy.  GM Hammer  works hard too for his victories, but Magnus  can pick them a lot more easy (but he is 2850).

    I do think all 2700 can beat a 2200 most of the time, but the 2200 knows how to make a draw, and I am convinced that many 2700s have to work very hard for their points. And they have the power to work hard.

    Easy wins they comes against mistakes and inaccuracies. I can give them easy wins. If a 2700 wants to relax with some easy wins, he should play me.

  • 9 hours ago · Quote · #4471

    Elubas

    "I am talking about winner instinct , calculation and hard work."

    And 2700s are incredible at this!

    "And they have the power to work hard."

    Right, they are very used to playing in a disciplined manner. Again that's what makes them so strong. So in a sense, planning and calculating in a detailed way, that's simply something 2700s can do easily. It's like they just automatically get into that mode when they play a game of chess. For us mortals, it's not as easy to resist the temptation to be lazy and careless.

  • 9 hours ago · Quote · #4472

    McUmber

    In a blindfold simul tournament with a rock band performing and having no touch move rule,, yes

  • 9 hours ago · Quote · #4473

    DjonniDerevnja

    Elubas wrote:

    "I am talking about winner instinct , calculation and hard work."

    And 2700s are incredible at this!

    I agree.

    Our disagreement is about the hard work part, I think they need to put in that to outplay the 2200. When Magnus plays mostly by instinct (blitz) he plays at 2400 longchesstrenght. I guess the 2700s playing on instinct will perform at ca 2250, and that they need to add hard work to play at 2700strenght. Relax-chess is chess without hard work.

    I  guess that relaxchess, beating some 1300-1600 players easily in blitz, can be a good thing for a super-Gm after a hard tournamentgame he lost, to get a better feeling, and be able to sleep that night. Relaxchess and some hard physical work-out might calm him down.

  • 8 hours ago · Quote · #4474

    Elubas

    Well 450 points is a massive drop in playing strength that you're talking about. There's not playing your best, but playing 450 points below your strength is pretty extreme.

  • 6 hours ago · Quote · #4475

    DjonniDerevnja

    I think blitzing (much intuitive play) is dropping that many points compared to longchess. Magnus did play a fantastic blitzsession here on chess.com, and the fact that he played his blitzgames at 2400 (or was it 2450?) longchess-strengt was considered sensationally strong by IM Rensch (hope i remember correctly).

    If we play intuitive and fast we can drop very far below our maximum.

    If we add all our focus and calculation and time the quality of the games can be as strong as possible.

    My theory is that a 2700 will close to always beat a 2200 if he works hard.

    If he doesnt put in work, he doesnt release his superpower, and that huge gap is severly reduced.

    The 2100 teenagers I know is very good chessplayers and does perform between 2300 and 2500 in their best tournaments, and below their ratinglevel at the worst ones.

  • 6 hours ago · Quote · #4476

    pestebalcanica

    Been thinking of picking the red one today
  • 5 hours ago · Quote · #4477

    castleguy12

    Even an unrated player can defeat Magnus Carlsen .......


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