Is there any chance that a 1300 rated player can beat a 2700 rated player?

  • #601

    In March 28, 2011 Anand lost to a 10 yr old junior player from Uzbekistan in a simul match. The Teenager was rated 1900. Check out the article in chessvibes.com

    Anand loses to youngster in Uzbek simul

    Here is the game. Anand, Viswanathan vs Igonin, Temur 0-1 Simul 2011.3.28

    1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. g3 g6 4. Bg2 Bg7 5. Nf3Nge7 6. O-O O-O 7. d3 d6 8. Rb1 f5 9. Bd2 h6 10. b4 g5 11. b5 Nd4 12. Nxd4 exd4 13. Nd5 Nxd5 14. Bxd5+ Kh8 15. a4 f4 16. a5 Rb8 17. Qc2 Bh3 18. Rfc1 fxg3 19. hxg3 Qf6 20. Be1 h5 21. c5 h4 22. cxd6 hxg3 23. f3 Qxd6 24. Be4 Qf4 25. Bd2 Qh426. e3 Bg2 0-1

  • #602
    topman75 wrote:

    In March 28, 2011 Anand lost to a 10 yr old junior player from Uzbekistan in a simul match. The Teenager was rated 1900. Check out the article in chessvibes.com

    Anand loses to youngster in Uzbek simul

    Here is the game. Anand, Viswanathan vs Igonin, Temur 0-1 Simul 2011.3.28

    1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. g3 g6 4. Bg2 Bg7 5. Nf3Nge7 6. O-O O-O 7. d3 d6 8. Rb1 f5 9. Bd2 h6 10. b4 g5 11. b5 Nd4 12. Nxd4 exd4 13. Nd5 Nxd5 14. Bxd5+ Kh8 15. a4 f4 16. a5 Rb8 17. Qc2 Bh3 18. Rfc1 fxg3 19. hxg3 Qf6 20. Be1 h5 21. c5 h4 22. cxd6 hxg3 23. f3 Qxd6 24. Be4 Qf4 25. Bd2 Qh426. e3 Bg2 0-1

    If the kid had been 1400, you might have a point.

  • #603

    Yes obviously. But if the Thread was changed to " Can a 1900 rated kid beat a world champ?" would that be a yes? 

  • #604

    Is there any chance that a 1300 rated player could beat a 2700 rated player"

    Of course there is a "chance".  I once was attacked by a kick boxer and two other guys and I cam out on top.  Most anything is possible.

    I would guess it has already happened in a simul.

  • #605

    I think you're missing the point. It's not that a 1300 player is worse than a random move generator but that a 1300 will never beat a 2700 because the 1300 will always make roughly 1300 level type moves whereas at least a random move generator has a (minisculely) small chance of randomly emulating 2700 level play

  • #606

    Magnus became a GM at the age of 13. He was over 2500 then.

  • #607
    0ort wrote:

    I think you're missing the point. It's not that a 1300 player is worse than a random move generator but that a 1300 will never beat a 2700 because the 1300 will always make roughly 1300 level type moves whereas at least a random move generator has a (minisculely) small chance of randomly emulating 2700 level play

     

    you clearly have no idea of the game tree complexity of chess.

  • #608

    well that was why I wrote miniscule! :) Admittedly you'd have to run the random move generator for much longer than the estimated life span of the universe but...

  • #609

    Ahah, you have a point then!

    now that I think about it a 1300 player has many chances to make moves that worsen his position. E.g. overextending pawns, going for silly attacks, etc.

  • #610

    exactly! as the person who originally made the point said, a little knoweledge can be a dangerous thing!

  • #611

    To quote Dumb and Dumber:

    Lloyd: What do you think the chances are of a guy like you and a girl like me... ending up together?
    Mary: Well, Lloyd, that's difficult to say. I mean, we don't really...
    Lloyd: Hit me with it! Just give it to me straight! I came a long way just to see you, Mary. The least you can do is level with me. What are my chances?
    Mary: Not good.
    Lloyd: You mean, not good like one out of a hundred?
    Mary: I'd say more like one out of a million.
    [pause]
    Lloyd: So you're telling me there's a chance... *YEAH!*

  • #612
    arcaneterrain wrote:

    To quote Dumb and Dumber:

    Lloyd: What do you think the chances are of a guy like you and a girl like me... ending up together?
    Mary: Well, Lloyd, that's difficult to say. I mean, we don't really...
    Lloyd: Hit me with it! Just give it to me straight! I came a long way just to see you, Mary. The least you can do is level with me. What are my chances?
    Mary: Not good.
    Lloyd: You mean, not good like one out of a hundred?
    Mary: I'd say more like one out of a million.
    [pause]
    Lloyd: So you're telling me there's a chance... *YEAH!*

    And a much better chance than our friend the 1300 in his ambition to knock off one of the top 51 players in the world.

  • #613

    Once again, although there is a possible disadvantage that the 1300 would have compared to the RMG, there are also advantages to being a 1300 as well. For example, a 1300 would be more likely to exploit extremely simple blunders. Moreover, he might find a great move, even if it was for the wrong reasons.

    So although there was a valid concern raised about the 1300 not having the moves in the hat to make the right move, you can't know if it would actually apply, without making assumptions.

    And of course, I also have to make assumptions or guesses when it comes to my opinion.

  • #614

    Similar to the chances of Jamaica beating Canada at ice hockey I'd say....you would need 20 canadian players to freakishly break their legs in the first quarter, and then see if Jamaica could catch up a 40 odd goal defecit with no opposition in 45 minutes. Would love to see that!

  • #615
    [COMMENT DELETED]
  • #616

    It could be possible when the 2700 plays against 25 or 30 players in exhibition. The pace is very fast. Each player has 5 or 10 minutes to concentrate while the pro has only seconds. Running boards after boards, he can't make any plans and probably can't remember the last move. Some of the players should win and good chances there's 1300 or even less in that gang...  But in a real game, it's something else...


  • #617
    alain978 wrote:

    It could be possible when the 2700 plays against 25 or 30 players in exhibition. The pace is very fast. Each player has 5 or 10 minutes to concentrate while the pro has only seconds. Running boards after boards, he can't make any plans and probably can't remember the last move. Some of the players should win and good chances there's 1300 or even less in that gang...  But in a real game, it's something else...


    I've watched a 2500 take on thirty players, and yes he loses a few, but these are to 1700s, not 1300s. 2700s are in the top 51 in the world. They eat 2500s for lunch.

  • #618

    Look I don't think the original question was meant to address whether a 2700 might lose to a 1300 if they're playing 150 people simultaneously and the GM gets 1 second to think about their moves and the 1300 gets an hour.  The original question was whether a 1300 rated player could ever defeat a 2700.  The answer is yes in theory but no in the real world.  

  • #619

    The answer is no in theory, no in the real world, but within the realm of random possibility given that a 2700 could be drunk or have a stroke.

  • #620

    I imagine about the same chance a 6 year old has of beating an adult in a fist fight

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