It is possible to defeat Magnus

MMTMIT

I'll be the guy who solves chess.

JimmySteele

He's definitely beatable.  I think Magnus is strong for a conventional player--but a real Fischer-esque genius type with unconventional aggression can knock him off.  Magnus is a product of computer training precision--he's precise and accurate.  That said, he's a manufactured champion who seems to have memorized a pattern of playing that deep computer analysis "likes."  But a real, gritty, resourceful prodigy can and will beat him.

Destroyer942
JimmySteele wrote:

He's definitely beatable.  I think Magnus is strong for a conventional player--but a real Fischer-esque genius type with unconventional aggression can knock him off.  Magnus is a product of computer training precision--he's precise and accurate.  That said, he's a manufactured champion who seems to have memorized a pattern of playing that deep computer analysis "likes."  But a real, gritty, resourceful prodigy can and will beat him.

Someday...

IronIC_U
Destroyer942 wrote:
JimmySteele wrote:

He's definitely beatable.  I think Magnus is strong for a conventional player--but a real Fischer-esque genius type with unconventional aggression can knock him off.  Magnus is a product of computer training precision--he's precise and accurate.  That said, he's a manufactured champion who seems to have memorized a pattern of playing that deep computer analysis "likes."  But a real, gritty, resourceful prodigy can and will beat him.

Someday...

Well, i’d Say it’s Vishy who’s more the product of computer training.  In fact, despite all of Vishy’s computer data base, Magnus rolled into town and molested the old man.  Took his crown right off his head.  In fact, the way Magnus did it is called “TAKING YOUR OPPONENT OUT OF THE BOOK”. What Magnus did is the opposite of what’s being asserted.

IronIC_U

Same answer as before: NO

MAGNUS IS NOT BEATABLE.  NO OTHER PLAYER HAS EXERTED AN ABILITY TO PLAY OUT OF THE BOOK AND UNDER ADVERSE CONDITIONS AS HAS MAGNUS.

 

brianchesscake

Even if no human chess player can defeat Magnus, eventually his worst enemy will be Father Time.

No way he will still be champion when he's 50, even if his successor isn't "objectively" as strong a player as he was / is in his prime.

drmrboss
Destroyer942 wrote:
drmrboss wrote:

In theroy, a monkey that play random moves could be able to beat 3500 rated stockfish! (someone caculated the chance as 1:10^52.  ( engines are also not perfect, and also human are, only 7 men TB is perfect)

Even if the monkey found the best possible moves by complete chance, wouldn't it still be a draw?

10^52 ,comes from this formula.

Average possible moves in a single position is 20. 

Average length of game= 40, 20^40 = 10^52.( approx)

 

If stockfish make a mistake in 1 in 40, meanwhile monkey play perfect moves 40 in 40, monkey win.

 

That formula become questionable as they use average game length of chess = 40 moves.( Which only apply to database of 2000+ human players).

But average length < 1000 people = 30 moves

Average length of 3500 engines = 60 moves.

 

I reckon the formula be adjusted as 20^ 60= 10^ 78( approx)

 

Monkey should beat SF 1 : 10^78 .( Close possibility of finding your desire atom among all possible atoms in universe)

 

IronIC_U
brianchesscake wrote:

Even if no human chess player can defeat Magnus, eventually his worst enemy will be Father Time.

No way he will still be champion when he's 50, even if his successor isn't "objectively" as strong a player as he was / is in his prime.

After 35, chess players are only good for donating blood.  One of my favorite quotes.  Can’t remember who said it.

JimmySteele
IronIC_U wrote:
brianchesscake wrote:

Even if no human chess player can defeat Magnus, eventually his worst enemy will be Father Time.

No way he will still be champion when he's 50, even if his successor isn't "objectively" as strong a player as he was / is in his prime.

After 35, chess players are only good for donating blood.  One of my favorite quotes.  Can’t remember who said it.

If only there were some kind of service online where you could type in queries and have a list of answers populated...like an engine that searches for things.  If only...

JimmySteele
IronIC_U wrote:
Destroyer942 wrote:
JimmySteele wrote:

He's definitely beatable.  I think Magnus is strong for a conventional player--but a real Fischer-esque genius type with unconventional aggression can knock him off.  Magnus is a product of computer training precision--he's precise and accurate.  That said, he's a manufactured champion who seems to have memorized a pattern of playing that deep computer analysis "likes."  But a real, gritty, resourceful prodigy can and will beat him.

Someday...

Well, i’d Say it’s Vishy who’s more the product of computer training.  In fact, despite all of Vishy’s computer data base, Magnus rolled into town and molested the old man.  Took his crown right off his head.  In fact, the way Magnus did it is called “TAKING YOUR OPPONENT OUT OF THE BOOK”. What Magnus did is the opposite of what’s being asserted.

Vishy knew lines.  Magnus stylistically plays like a computer.  There's a difference. Caruana equaled him in the championship, so we know for a fact that Magnus isn't out of reach.  If Magnus were that special, what're the odds that one of his contemporaries would be able to draw with him 12 times in a row?

DamonevicSmithlov

Theres the new fide Fischer Random world championship this year. It will be very interesting to see who wins. Magnus is the current champion... sigh.... again. Go figure.

IronIC_U

The field is narrowing, no doubt.  I haven’t been able to quite put a finger on why Magnus keeps winning, or drawing to a win.  He is not a particularly sporting individual.  He’s so uncoordinated, especially compared to Kasparov.  Yet, the guy dominates at chess, even when his competitors have tons of resources at their disposal.  I don’t think he’ll yield the title until he’s over 35

IronIC_U
JimmySteele wrote:
IronIC_U wrote:
Destroyer942 wrote:
JimmySteele wrote:

He's definitely beatable.  I think Magnus is strong for a conventional player--but a real Fischer-esque genius type with unconventional aggression can knock him off.  Magnus is a product of computer training precision--he's precise and accurate.  That said, he's a manufactured champion who seems to have memorized a pattern of playing that deep computer analysis "likes."  But a real, gritty, resourceful prodigy can and will beat him.

Someday...

Well, i’d Say it’s Vishy who’s more the product of computer training.  In fact, despite all of Vishy’s computer data base, Magnus rolled into town and molested the old man.  Took his crown right off his head.  In fact, the way Magnus did it is called “TAKING YOUR OPPONENT OUT OF THE BOOK”. What Magnus did is the opposite of what’s being asserted.

Vishy knew lines.  Magnus stylistically plays like a computer.  There's a difference. Caruana equaled him in the championship, so we know for a fact that Magnus isn't out of reach.  If Magnus were that special, what're the odds that one of his contemporaries would be able to draw with him 12 times in a row?

I disagree.  Vishy is obviously more a product of using mental capacity to memorize computer play.  The reason why Magnus now dominates is exactly the opposite of what you’re saying.  You don’t understand what’s happening at that level.