Magnus Carlsen vs Leela Chess Zero

King_of_Checkmates

I am serious. How can Leela, who only knows the basic rules of chess and nothing more, beat Carlsen?

LionVanHalen

Carlsen would have a decent chance, at classical control...

For once pfren made a good point about elo inflation, with these silly engine playing each other. Leela would be favourite, but a super GM would compete well.

Remember, though CPU can calculate million of possibles, only one move can be played his turn... they can not get much better, only slight improvement. 

Any case, these amazing super engine still cannot move their own piece?!

And who built the super amazing CPUs? People did.

MattFarell

LionVanHalen wrote:

Carlsen would have a decent chance, at classical control...

For once pfren made a good point about elo inflation, with these silly engine playing each other. Leela would be favourite, but a super GM would compete well.

Remember, though CPU can calculate million of possibles, only one move can be played his turn... they can not get much better, only slight improvement. 

Any case, these amazing super engine still cannot move their own piece?!

And who built the super amazing CPUs? People did.

People built cars, none can out run them. Same with computers and chess engines, and to answer the question of the OP, Current Leela, especially Anti Fish would beat Magnus every single game. He would be very lucky to get a draw.

LionVanHalen

No way?!

Agree that Leela would be favourite...

But take this line... under analysis Carlsen and a super engine agreed with around 98% of moves... so that refutes the elo gap right there?

jjupiter6

LionVanHalen wrote:

No way?!

Agree that Leela would be favourite...

But take this line... under analysis Carlsen and a super engine agreed with around 98% of moves... so that refutes the elo gap right there?

Are you asking us or telling us?

LionVanHalen

And the point about cars... just yesterday i see a high spec porsche parked by a restaurant...

Very impressive, but the car isn't moving... until his master come with the key?!

Same with Leela... cannot turn herself on, cannot move a piece? 

Jerry_Smith_C142
LionVanHalen wrote:

And the point about cars... just yesterday i see a high spec porsche parked by a restaurant...

Very impressive, but the car isn't moving... until his master come with the key?!

Same with Leela... cannot turn herself on, cannot move a piece? 

That doesn't matter, Leela would outclass Carlsen because the machine doesn't need a driver, it doesn't get tired, it doesn't have doubts, it doesn't blunder, it never tilts, and it has played so much more chess games than Carlsen by now as well. Leela has been learning by playing against itself and is up there with Stockfish now in terms of strength. There's no way Carlsen would be able to win one single game; draw sometimes in classical (maybe), win, not a chance. 

Jerry_Smith_C142
King_of_Checkmates wrote:

I am serious. How can Leela, who only knows the basic rules of chess and nothing more, beat Carlsen?

Because it's a neural network that has evolved to play the best moves from a probabilistic perspective. 

BL4D3RUNN3R

The last computer-human matches ended in a disaster for the mankind although the machine played with material and tempi odds (mali). Nakamura turned into a clown who lost despite a pawn and two tempi up...

LionVanHalen

But still leela and co. cannot switch themselves on or move a piece unless a person does for them... and the fact Carlsen and super engine agree on majority of moves... suggest a match would be close, in classical. 

Nakamura v Komodo was a crock of nonsense... am not interested in handicap Chess, would have expected more from Naka.

What happened to Gull?! that was funniest idea ever... has he been scrapped?

And what is the difference between alpha and leela?!

Jerry_Smith_C142

Leela is the opensource version of Deepmind's AlphaZero, Alpha is also not specifically made for chess but has played Go before and now more recently StarCraft 2. It's just a good way to test their neural network's capabilities and also get a lot of attention. Their goal is of course much more than just creating an AI that can beat the best players in any game, and the advancements are going very fast in the field of AI now, although there are still question marks as to what the real capabilities of these neural network AI's are when you remove the state of the art hardware they're running on and in the case of beating pro human players if it has more to do with the hardware than the software. Fascinating development nonetheless.

"and the fact Carlsen and super engine agree on majority of moves... suggest a match would be close, in classical."

Even if they are close in evaluation %, Carlsen would have a really hard time even versus an engine or neural network running on modest hardware. There's a reason we don't see the top players beating the machines, that's because they are much stronger without the downsides a human have as I mentioned previously.

 

LionVanHalen

Well... agree that winning would be very tough, but neither do i think Carlsen would be crushed. Most game would either be a draw or leela would grind Carlsen into a long, valiant defeat. 

But she still can't switch herself on, or move her own pieces...