Monroi Chess Recorder

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TheOldReb
LegoPirateSenior wrote:
happyfanatic wrote:

Although I'm not 100% certain, I believe that it is a USCF rule that you always have to show your opponent your scoresheet upon request. 

 

A compliance with such requests is encouraged but not mandatory. A player whose opponent refused to share the scoresheet may stop the clock and ask the TD for assistance. If the TD agrees that the request is appropriate, the scoresheet must be loaned to the requestor (this is because the game records belong to the tournament organizers).

Both players must have at least 5 minutes on the clock for such requests to be valid. Borrower's clock must be running while the scoresheet is on loan.


 Here, in fide events the score sheets are furnished by the organizers and considered their property, not the player's so you MUST allow an opponent to use it if they ask..... you dont have a choice in the matter.

In the US I think its usual that each person provides their own score sheet(s) and writing devices which would make them personal property and I dont see how they can make you share it with an opponent if you are not so inclined...... ??

LegoPirateSenior
Reb wrote:

In the US I think its usual that each person provides their own score sheet(s) and writing devices which would make them personal property and I dont see how they can make you share it with an opponent if you are not so inclined...... ??


The TD might suggest: "Share it or forefeit. Your choice" Yell

chessroboto
LegoPirateSenior wrote:

The TD might suggest: "Share it or forefeit. Your choice" 


Exactly the reason why I suggested to let the arbiter (or TD) intervene when an issue arises.

chessroboto

An older post says that cheaters have been caught using their Monroi PCMs as analysis boards instead of move recorders during a match.

There will be tournaments (especially those with great winning prizes) that will use the Monroi Base Station and will require all the Monroi users to connect to the host wirelessly. That will allow the monitoring of the devices and force users to record their moves properly during the match.

But when there is no base station to monitor the players, how can one stop cheaters from using their Monrois for analysis during a match? Undecided

chessroboto

To all the players who have been handwriting their chess matches:

What is your rate of accuracy for ALL your handwritten scoresheets?

kco

99%

chessroboto

How many here would prefer to own a DGT chessboard instead of a Monroi PCM?

ozzie_c_cobblepot
chessroboto wrote:

To all the players who have been handwriting their chess matches:

What is your rate of accuracy for ALL your handwritten scoresheets?


A lot lower than I thought. But yes it's higher than 99%, if you figure that each half-move is an opportunity to write the correct move.

150 games, 40 moves per game. 6000 moves. It was more than 6 moves that I missed for sure, but maybe 10-15 or something.

chessroboto
RuralRob wrote:

I am wondering what is to stop somebody from cracking open their Monroi, replacing the guts with those from, say, a Nexus One, installing the Stockfish engine with a UI that looks like the Monroi's UI, and using it to cheat. Does everybody's Monroi get inspected and verified at each tournament?


I've read in older threads that in large informal tournaments (500+ participants), players got away without having their Monroi units checked nor monitored by the arbiters or tournament directors. That was when the cheaters used the GUI as an analysis board during an OTB match. The same poster said that the cheater in a particular tournament was caught and forfeited.

For smaller tournaments with a Monroi wireless base station, the Monroi PCMs will need to connect securely using a proprietary encryption that is only used by Monroi. Being unable to do so (due to tampering) would raise suspicions from the organizers.

This only suggests that savvy hackers would be able to preserve the wireless protocols even after a portable Rybka 4 chess engine is added to the PDA's original programming. Cool

chessroboto

Aside from the issue of price, what issues do owners have with the Monroi PCM?

For me, I've been imagining if it were possible to update the operating system if needed the same way the Windows Mobile and iPhones are able to.

chessroboto

Aside from the issue of price, what issues do owners have with the Monroi PCM?

For me, I've been imagining if it were possible to update the operating system if needed the same way the Windows Mobile and iPhones are able to.

PP2

It is possible to replay the game you are playing with the Monroi PCM. This can be used to spot a threefold repetition of position. I think FIDE should not allow this, using the device as a draw claiming help tool is against the FIDE rules. 

chessroboto

I take it that you have played against someone who did this to you before?

As far as rules are concerned, three-fold repetition is a draw, with or without a Monroi. However, the draw must be claimed IMMEDIATELY. By agreeing to continue and changing the position on the next move, both players forfeit the draw possibility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threefold_repetition

Read the examples in the wiki, and you will see that a Monroi is not needed to take advantage of the three-fold repetition rule.

PP2

chessroboto, you miss my point.

With a three-fold repetition of position you can claim a draw.

Sometimes it is hard to identify how many times a certain position has been on the board, for example when a position arises after move 47, 55 and 71. If you only have your scoresheet it is quite a puzzle to solve wether the 3 positions are identical. With a Monroi device you simply replay the game. Then it is easy to look at the position after move 47 and 55. In case the position indeed is identical after move 71, you can claim the draw.

chessroboto

But you missed my point when I pasted the wiki article. The players did not need a Monroi to claim the draw in the same scenario that you indicated.

The Monroi only makes it easier and faster to resolve the claim for a draw when it is actually claimed. When you spot a three-fold repetition, you check it. When you call the arbiter or TD, the clock is paused while the claim is verified. It could take a minute with a scoresheet or seconds with a Monroi.

If your opponent spots it and wants to claim it, your opponent will do so with or without a Monroi.

PP2

chessroboto, another example for you which explains what I mean.

In a better rook ending white is playing for a win, but it is hard to crack the defense of black. After move 52 and 61 the position is identical.  After blacks 67th move white can play Rb1 or Ra1. He does not want black to claim a draw, so with his Monroi PCM he replays the game and checks which of the positions already has been on the board earlier in the game. Aha, he sees Ra1 will give black the chance to claim the draw. So he plays Rb1.

This a against FIDE rules:

12.3 a. During play the players are forbidden to make use of any notes, sources of information or advice, or analyse on another chessboard.

LegoPirateSenior

Reviewing the record is not the same as analyzing. Claiming a draw would be normally done in the presence of an arbiter anyway.

Bottom line: FIDE recognized Monroi as a suitable replacement for pen & paper long time ago (2006).

PP2

Yes, FIDE recognized the Monroi device.

I think FIDE should not have done this, since in my opinion reviewing on screen  the moves you have played is analyzing.

chessroboto

The analysis was an issue that I've been discussing with several others in other threads. In a large tournament with 300+ players, the arbiters and TD cannot monitor the Monroi users from using the function to go through the game in graphical mode. However, if they are caught, they forfeit the game. Just jeep a suspicious eye out and you might even score an easy win against cheaters!  Wink

However in smaller tournaments where a Monroi wireless Base Station is used to monitor the players' games through their Monroi entries, GUI analysis would not be possible unless the arbiter or TD approved it or risk forfeiting the game.

Either way, the purpose of the device is to assist the young and/or the careless. When you find yourself in a match with high stakes, I'm pretty sure that you'll be using paper scoresheets and a DGT electronic chessboard.

WilliamIofEngland

Any new inputs re Monroi pros and cons?